65nm Xbox 360s starting to trickle out?

We've been waiting and waiting, and after months of speculation, a hardware revision, a couple limited editions, and even a new SKU, it looks like Microsoft is finally shipping "Falcon"-equipped Xbox 360s with 65nm CPUs. According to the eagle-eyed posters in the official Xbox forums, Halo edition 360s from lot #734 appear to be the first machines with the new chips, and the time-honored method of peeking inside the case with a flashlight should confirm you have the latest and greatest once you get your baby home. Check the read links for tons more info (and a fun little flamewar).

[Image from user JWSpeed in the Xbox forums]

Read -- Original thread with pics of the new chipset
Read -- What to look for to see if you've got a 65nm 360

[i.c. weiner @ Sep 28th 2007 7:54PM]

wOOt wOOt!

[wit's end @ Sep 28th 2007 9:02PM]

Is anyone else tired of this w00t and pwnage talk?

[Tim @ Sep 28th 2007 9:08PM]

somewhat, but i'm more annoyed by the "but does it play doom" and "will it blend"

[Mike @ Sep 28th 2007 9:27PM]

yea, but we STILL haven't found ANYTHING that can play doom while blending...

[i.c. weiner @ Sep 28th 2007 11:03PM]

WhO CaReS?

[ethana2 @ Sep 29th 2007 12:06AM]

The 'will it blend' question is very valid. Can this blend? No. Code signing. So I won't buy it. Other reasons why something wouldn't be able to blend include lack of MMU (GBA, DS) or lack of 3d acceleration.

[John Doe @ Sep 29th 2007 2:52AM]

No the real question is will the blender play Doom while its blending the 360. If so then woot. IF not then :-(

[ssuk @ Sep 29th 2007 8:40AM]

if (blender == plays doom)
{
console.write('woot');
}
else
{
console.write(':(');
break;
}

if (blender == blending 360)
{
Int32 devidebyzero = 1 / 0;
//Oh shi-----
}
else
{
console.write('not so woot');
}

[strider_mt2k @ Sep 29th 2007 8:53PM]

What's this about pwning at Doom blending?

Haxors!

[prateeko @ Sep 28th 2007 8:03PM]

So does this go for all of the Halo 3 Edition 360s or how are we supposed to tell by the box if it is or is not a Falcon chipset?

[MRCUR @ Sep 28th 2007 8:07PM]

Unfortunately there is no way to tell if your console is 65nm before you open the box.

And no, this is not all Halo 3 consoles. I would suggest you get a lot 0734 or higher to get 65nm.

[Jonathan Keim @ Sep 28th 2007 8:17PM]

Oh great, now I can wait another 3 months for newest hardware... at this rate I won't get an Xbox 360 until the Xbox 720 comes out.

Wouldn't be nice if they just got it right the first time

[james @ Sep 29th 2007 11:08AM]

you're an idiot Jonathan. all hardware goes through revisions, from the SNES to the PS2 and now the 360. its been out for 2 years, for God's sake. its about time they made some hardware changes.

[derek @ Sep 28th 2007 8:06PM]

Do customers know which model they are getting? If not, that sounds a little dishonest...

[Philometalist @ Sep 28th 2007 8:17PM]

You're totally right, but I seriously doubt Microsoft is going to publicly blacklist older revisions of the 360 just for the benefit of their customers. The new bundled 360's scheduled to come out soon will probably take advantage of the new 65nm. Probably best to wait for them...

[Ant @ Sep 28th 2007 8:43PM]

how the hell is it dishonest? all electoric devices go thru hidden updates to the hardware to make the process of making them faster and cheaper.ps2 had alot of revisions done under the hood,so did the orginal xbox. the ps3s are losing the emotion engine and they arent going to tell you it is that dishonest too?

[Frankenstein Black @ Sep 28th 2007 11:04PM]

Ant, its dishonest because there are known flaws with existing hardware (Heat, RROD, Noisy drives, Disc scratching, disc read errors, the list goes on) hence the admittance by MS and 3 year warranty extension to cope. Besides the obvious of making it right the first time, to this day you still have to be treated like "Forrest Gump" when you buy one. Buying an Xbox 360 shouldn't be "like a box of chocolates". YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GONNA GET! So MS do us PS2 fence sitters all a favor, print in BIG BOLD HYPE type letters on the new boxes "NOW WITH NEW & IMPROVED COOLER 65NM CHIPSET"!

[John @ Sep 29th 2007 12:18AM]

I don't know what you're complaining about. You want an xbox 360 - they're all both xbox 360s. They play the same games, they have the same promised functionality, and they each deliver it. They make small revisions all the time to the hardware to try and make it cheaper to produce, better, etc. In this case, one is superior, but not in a functionality changing fashion. Marketing such changes wouldn't screw over MS, but screw over retailers who would suddenly have two products priced the same but one that no one would buy and they'd be stuck with dead stock. Sure, I'd want to get the most bang for my buck too, but this isn't some vendetta MS is waging against you.

[sw @ Sep 30th 2007 2:03AM]

Did someone say an Xbox of chocolates?

[giedrys @ Sep 28th 2007 8:11PM]

So how big is the difference in real life between old and new version anyway?

[Homeboy @ Sep 28th 2007 8:18PM]

In terms of performance the will barely be any difference. The main point of the new CPU is that it's more energy efficient than the old one and develops less heat i.e hence less overheating issues.

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Sep 29th 2007 4:01AM]

> [...] hence less overheating issues.

And hence less problems with cheap production lines located _______ (fill in your favorite outsourcing destination).

Often companies start producing units at "home" - only then do outsourcing when production cycle is completely "debugged" and verified to be reliable in other environments. M$ jumped to production outsourcing right away. And the quality problems were to expect.

I still recall that it tool Apple instead of planned 6 months whole 18 month before brining their Chinese plants up to level of quality Apple have demanded. And alas! there were more problems with Cupertino's' new Mac OS X than with Chinese made iBooks/PowerBooks.

[roger_huston @ Sep 28th 2007 8:25PM]

I talked to an EB Games and they said that they will keep the new Falcon boxes separate from the older ones so when people come in and ask for the newer ones they will get them.

I like this approach, sure beats having people return units because it doesn't have the right processor.

Not everyone will do this, I am sure different stores will have different policies.

- Roger

- Roger.

[MonkeyHood @ Sep 28th 2007 8:44PM]

Roger, What will they do with the old ones then?

[Dixonij @ Sep 28th 2007 8:47PM]

Probably sell them to the consumers who don't know any better.

[hn333 @ Sep 28th 2007 9:03PM]

Haha Suckers :P

[roger_huston @ Sep 28th 2007 10:18PM]

Exactly. They want to keep the separate for the people who ask for it. If you do not ask for it, then you will get the old ones.

- Roger

[Mr Angry @ Sep 28th 2007 9:10PM]

Thanks to everyone for your beta testing of this product, I'll go pick one up now, cheers!

[Mitch R. @ Sep 28th 2007 9:11PM]

Hmmm, they got rid of the watercooled copper heatpipe? I would have preferred it stayed, but if they feel confident these 65nm CPUs will stay cool enough.....

[ethana2 @ Sep 29th 2007 12:08AM]

If I could run my own OS on there, I would care, too. As it stands, you don't even /own/ the hardware in the first place.

[John Willis @ Sep 29th 2007 9:22AM]

There is no watercooling in the heatpipe - they use a gel that looks like vaseline that doesn't move - it is just insanely excellent at moving heat. it is the same heatpipes I have seen in (Apple) laptops and desktops for years. I got a demo of it's abilities a few years back, and it is wicked stuff. they probably jsut moved it to somewhere else, unless the new chips didn't need it.

-Javbw

[Low @ Sep 28th 2007 9:21PM]

So if I were to send my xbox in would I be able to get one of these back? :P

[Andir3.0 @ Sep 29th 2007 3:17PM]

Doubt it, your likely to get a refurbished unit someone else sent in for repair.

[Steve @ Sep 28th 2007 9:53PM]

You guys are such a retards. Lock ups and red rings are caused by overheating of the graphics chip not the CPU. If the GPU got the same die shrink then perhaps it may be worth going with Falcon version.

[Dick Nuts @ Sep 28th 2007 10:39PM]

Your the idiot here. 65nm CPU means cooler ambient temps inside the 360... which means cooler GPU temps. Don't be so fast to call people idiots when you yourself do not know what you are talking about.

[John @ Sep 29th 2007 12:25AM]

He doesn't need details, just a basic grasp of thermodynamics. Come back when you know what "thermodynamics" means.

[John @ Sep 29th 2007 2:13PM]

Wow Steve (Jobs), for someone so good at marketing and speaking in public you really suck when it comes to subterfuge against Microsoft...

[Mak @ Sep 29th 2007 3:53PM]

Indeed. The 360 problems are twofold.

1/ GPU tempreture, and indequate heatsink.
2/ Lack of airflow inside the case.

A shrunk CPU is not going to fix these 2 problems. We have no evidence todate, that 65nm are any more reliable than 90nm units.

Microsoft are not going 65nm CPU for reliability, they are doing it to reduce manufacturing costs.

[Zach G @ Sep 28th 2007 9:59PM]

If you read the xbox360 thread, the CPU is the only thing to get new size right now but some posters are saying that a new GPU is not far behind. Maybe the entire board will be 65nm by the end of the year...thats what I'm waiting for or el cheapo ps3.

[Ahren @ Sep 28th 2007 10:06PM]

Hey Guys,

Can you view the Xbox lot # just by looking at the box?

[MRCUR @ Sep 28th 2007 10:30PM]

Yes. On the side of the box there is a white sticker with lot number and team information.

[hn333 @ Sep 28th 2007 10:46PM]

So will it still over heat if I look at it funny?

[Cygnus X-1 @ Sep 28th 2007 11:03PM]

I think people are reading the pics wrong... if you look at it the shape of the CPU has changed a bit and may be a bit smaller but if it was a direct shrink from 90nm to 65nm you would easily see the ~25% shrink. I think this is a simple CPU revision. Companies do revisions all the time and they can shrink the die size and reduce temp but this is not a process change.

[MRCUR @ Sep 28th 2007 11:40PM]

I wouldn't expect the heat spreader to ever get smaller. The die may get smaller, but the heat spreader won't.

Also, not shrinking the actual heat spreader allows for greater heat dissipation, which means an even great efficiency.

[Cygnus X-1 @ Sep 28th 2007 11:49PM]

I was not referring to the heatsink, simply the die itself. there is no heatspreader on these CPUs, that is the exposed die in the pictures. Heatspreaders are metal and generally cover the resistors as well as the die. The pictures clearly show an exposed die just like Intel uses in laptop CPUs.

All process shrinks (such as the much discussed 90nm to 65nm) are accompanied by an appropriate % die shrink unless you add more cache or CPU functionality. As this is a console, neither apply. I just don't see the 25% shrink I would expect to see. Hence they have reorganized the die to make it more efficient not changed the process.

[homer34 @ Sep 28th 2007 11:40PM]

I sent my 360 in for repair a few weeks ago. When it returns will it have the new chip?

[MRCUR @ Sep 29th 2007 8:54AM]

I highly doubt it. MS probably has tons of old boards to use first.

[Mak @ Sep 29th 2007 9:24AM]

No, it will have a bodged up heatsink, that may make it last a little while longer, before it fails again.

Sorry, you have been fleeced by Microsoft.

[homer34 @ Sep 29th 2007 11:57AM]

Thanks for the help.

[Chaj @ Sep 28th 2007 11:57PM]

Can anyone tell me what the Mfr Date for systems that are from Lot 0734 and higher? I threw out the box and I don't see the Lot# anywhere on my 360. My Mfr Date is 7-10-07

Thanks in advance.