80GB PS3 takes a step back on backwards compatibility

It looks like gamers stuck in the past may want to think twice before throwing down the $600 for a shiny new 80GB PS3, as it's now been revealed that the system has dropped the PS2 "emotion engine" chip in favor of the software-based solution currently employed in the 80GB Korean PS3 and existing Euro PS3s. As you can sort of make out in the image from the 80GB box above, that means "limited backward compatibility" with PS1 and PS2 games, not to mention a likely endless series of software updates to slowly expand that compatibility. No word if the 60GB PS3 will also be going the software-only route, although that $100 price drop could possibly be a sign of things to come. On a side note, our pals at Joystiq also got the official word from Sony on that mysterious red light emanating from the SIXAXIS on the 80GB PS3 box. According to Sony's Dave Karraker, "it is just a lighting trick. Nothing different or new about it."

[Via Joystiq]

[Fatima @ Jul 10th 2007 11:54AM]

All the more reason to get the $500 one!

[Mike @ Jul 10th 2007 1:28PM]

Sony dropped the "Emotion Engine" chip and backward compatibility because surveys said that few people were playing their PS2 games on a PS3 and they figured lowering the price of the box to $499 would make better business sense then including an expensive component almost no one uses.

It was a good move for them in my opinion. If you still want to play your PS2 games, hook back up your PS2. Me? I'll be taking advantage of the price drop and shelving my old games.

[Kennyb123 @ Jul 10th 2007 4:57PM]

Well, you CAN'T enjoy the lower price AND not enjoy the lack of emulation, since the currently lowered price PS3 -HAS- the emotion engine. But, eventually, you're probably right... if you wait, the 60GB'ers will probably drop the chip.

[Mile @ Jul 10th 2007 11:57AM]

A lighting trick?

[strider_mt2k @ Jul 10th 2007 1:08PM]

Maybe he was waving his hand around like a Jedi when he said that and it didn't translate in print.

-or one can hope.

[Mike @ Jul 10th 2007 6:22PM]

That red light is in existing stock photos from the original PS3 launch. It's nothing new.

[anonymouspimp @ Jul 10th 2007 12:01PM]

You know... I bought the PS2 over the alternative consoles because I wanted to make sure I could still play all my PS games...

I think I kept playing (maybe) 2 old PS games for about 2 weeks before I completely moved on... I suspect that will be the case with this, for most people.

I don't see it making that big of an impact... besides... if you want to play that PS2 game that badly... just plug it in. What were you planning on throwing your PS2 away after getting a PS3?

Jesus... i still have my nintendo, super nintendo, sega genesis and N64 somewhere around here... i've actually been known to plug them in once or twice a year for laughs.

[Andir3.0 @ Jul 10th 2007 12:35PM]

It's a big deal because it gives Sony haters something to bitch about.

[imageburn13 @ Jul 10th 2007 12:42PM]

Actually, the gamestop near me had a promo that you could trade in your ps2, 2 controllers, & mem card and they would take 100 bucks off the PS3. This is what I did. :)

[J @ Jul 10th 2007 1:05PM]

"Actually, the gamestop near me had a promo that you could trade in your ps2, 2 controllers, & mem card and they would take 100 bucks off the PS3. This is what I did. :)"

Funny, I can get the same deal at Target right now... zing!!

[David Pausche @ Aug 7th 2007 5:36AM]

I was planning on throwing my playstation 2 away, either selling it or giving it to one of my one of my nephews. I've got an Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii, Playstation 2, Genesis, Genesis C.D., a 60" television, an Xbox 360 surround sound, with mulltiple controllers and accessories for all of them! I've got too much!!! I dont want or need to keep the Playstation 2 when a Playstation 3 and its reverse compatibility is all I need! Just a simple hook-up, maybe thats all it is for you! All my friends dont have as many systems as me but they want to have graduating systems with R.C. aswell. I like playing the older games, like right know im playing Shining Force 2 for the Genesis, And if you dont have Final Fantasy 7 and Resident Evil(s) for the old systems than you dont even deserve to own a playstation 3......NUFF SAID!!!!

[Sam @ Jul 10th 2007 12:08PM]

"According to Sony's Dave Karraker, "it is just a lighting trick. Nothing different or new about it.""

And we all know how good Sony's word is. Didn't they also say last week that no price drop was coming?

[Sam @ Jul 10th 2007 12:09PM]

"According to Sony's Dave Karraker, "it is just a lighting trick. Nothing different or new about it.""

And we all know how good Sony's word is. Didn't they also say last week that no price drop was coming?

[EMaster @ Jul 10th 2007 12:18PM]

For cripe's sake just fold already and say "Ok! We screwed up the most powerful series of consoles and hereby withdraw from the North American Market". Seriously! Fold already!

[Phil @ Jul 10th 2007 12:29PM]

Huh?! Why would they do that? The thing is still not even 4 months old in most parts of the world!!

The AAA games are just around the corner....chill mate :-)

[EMaster @ Jul 10th 2007 12:39PM]

I hope ur right Phil. I really don;t want to see the PS3 fail I really don;t because of the success of the previous consoles but also because if I had stocks invested into this I would be getting some rope ready to hanf myself. If this kind of stuff continuous man this thing is going to become the new.... Gamecube :S

[Glazun @ Jul 10th 2007 12:21PM]

This is the case with all PS3's in Europe. :/ Most games don't work, Metal Gear.. etc..

[Andy @ Jul 10th 2007 12:43PM]

Actually most games do work just fine, especially the big series.

http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/bcGames.htm

[Mak @ Jul 10th 2007 4:42PM]

WARNING FUD ALERT.

MGS works fine. The Backwards compatability was broken in one of the incremental updates (1.70), and fixed in 1.80.

It's the only game that actually went backwards, as it's to be expected, as it's impossible to test every game prior to ever firmware release.

love how so many Americans are posting here, commenting on something they know NOTHING about.. As a PAL PS3 owner, I can say, honestly, that Software emulation for PS2, on the PS3 is nothing to worry about, it's very good. Granted not as good as hardware support, but a VERY close 2nd, and a very impressive technical feat to achieve.

[Glazun @ Jul 10th 2007 4:47PM]

I'm not american.. I also didn't realise the problem with MGS was fixed. Also, the main problem with the fact we've had this before the americans, is that we're paying more than them.. though hopefully we see a price drop too.

[Dasutin @ Jul 10th 2007 12:38PM]

Yeah all the more reason for Sony to lock you into there wide library of PS3 games!

[WhackMushroom @ Jul 10th 2007 12:47PM]

you know ... for those 2000 games in your ps2 library .. just go pick up a 60gigger now.

[Rainier @ Jul 10th 2007 12:41PM]

Lighting trick, eh? Someone got fancy with Photoshop. *sigh* I want my controller to rumble.

[Frankenstein Black @ Jul 10th 2007 12:50PM]

:^(... http://www.eternal-champions.com/images/ps3jcus-v-eu.jpg
Well, the 60GB is $499 with some added free-bees! Run don’t walk to your nearest BestBuy if you have a huge library of PS2 games. What, you still sitting there!!

[Keith @ Jul 10th 2007 1:00PM]

The European backwards compatibility has actually proven to be very comprehensive, and is updated with every firmware release.

[KC @ Jul 10th 2007 1:02PM]

The $100 drop in price means that you can use that $100 to get a PS2 for full backward compatibility.

[ryanworrell @ Jul 10th 2007 1:30PM]

LOL. What about the 260 price drop. I don't need to go buy a original xbox. Hmmmm What will i do with the extra 50-75 bux I save on my next 360 purchase. lol

[ryanworrell @ Jul 10th 2007 1:31PM]

LOL. What about the 360 price drop. I don't need to go buy a original xbox. Hmmmm What will i do with the extra 50-75 bux I save on my next 360 purchase. lol

[Dahk @ Jul 10th 2007 1:21PM]

Seriously, the 80GB would be less of a steal than the 60GB. Motorstorm + 20GB doesn't equate to another 100 bucks.

The EE Chip removal was obviously necessary in price reductions. So live with it, and if you NEED BC (which you need for MGS3 unfortunately), go buy the 60 Gigger.

However, the euro listing for FW 1.80 already has a 73% BC rate for ALL PS2 games. Which probably equates to about 95% of your whole damn collection (Save MGS3 in your collection of 20). So I don't really understand much of the problem.

PLUS!! If you modded your ps2, you wouldn't hand in your ps2 for the deals at retail stores. Which means you still get to play those dirt cheap games =).

So all in all, good move for sony to move towards price reductions.

[ryanworrell @ Jul 10th 2007 1:25PM]

Way to go Sony. Man now I am wondering if this is genius logic. Microsoft should have made the Elite not work with Xbox1 games. That would be the awesome thing to do. They would have made a killing. Screw it. They should have made it 599 instead of 479. Oh and they should have stopped selling the cores as well. Jeeze what are those M$ guys thinking, I am sure Sony will take the lead in the console war now.

/sarcasm

[Dahk @ Jul 10th 2007 1:40PM]

You have genius logic.

/sarcasm.

Read my post above if anything. Jeez.

[Dan @ Jul 10th 2007 4:23PM]

> Microsoft should have made the Elite not work with Xbox1 games.

It already isn't. My XBox 360 won't play 30% of the original XBox games I own* (games I never played but bought cheap because MS promised XBox compatability for the 360 - what a load of bullshit that was), I'm sure the Elite isn't any different. I've already ordered a 60GB PS3, as I think Sony is making a mistake with this change.

It was really great to be able to finish PS1 games (and use the same saves) I started on the PS2 and not have to keep a PS1 hooked up. Seriously, I may be the only fan, but I still haven't played a Rally game I liked as much as Rally Cross for the PS1 (old game != no fun.) Heck, I still want to own a Galaga arcade machine.

* I own 10 XBox games, the 3 that don't work are not obscure titles - Morrowwind GOTY Edition, PGR2, Sudeki (published by MS.)

[Matthew @ Jul 10th 2007 1:49PM]

Definitely don't see this as a big deal, I have a 360 and because of this price drop and all the freebies I am seriously considering getting one for the extra controller and movies, however with the whole Emotion Chip thing yeah I am going to have to say that when the 360 was getting ready to come out and they announced that it would be software emulation instead of having the hardware for BC in the box, the PS3 boys jumped all over that and used it as an argument of why the 360 was inferior and the PS3 was more advanced, seems now the PS3 is going the way of the 360, am I right? Either way this is good for us gamers and consumers as a whole because it will drive prices down

[TVGenius @ Jul 10th 2007 1:53PM]

That makes me really nervous, as we were planning on probably getting one later this year as some of the games coming out will finally make it worth it to us. But without being able to still play our PS2 stuff (since I know it won't live forever) without software updates makes it almost a dealbreaker. We can't get broadband where we live (at least not at an affordable price) so software updates are a lame way of making up for that shortcoming.

[Solust @ Jul 10th 2007 4:50PM]

You can actually download the updates via Sony's site and then put them a storage device (such as Memory Stick™, SD Memory Card, CompactFlash®, or USB storage device) and put it in your PS3 and update that way. Games will also come with updates on the game disk.

Hope this changes your mind ^^

[TVGenius @ Jul 10th 2007 4:53PM]

That's better then... being a bit more of a Wii fanboy I hadn't heard they would be available elsewhere. Guess I could add PS3 updates to everything else I download at work to update my systems at home. Can't beat having 45Mb at work. :)

[Geir E @ Jul 10th 2007 2:17PM]

Nice, the 60gb ps3 is US$1033 in Norway, and when you get the no-emotion-engine version you get it for US$499.

Now THAT sucks

[Chris Friend @ Jul 10th 2007 2:56PM]

Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.

This product has limited backward compatibility with Playstation and Playstation 2 format software.

Many Playstation and Playstation 2 format software titles operate, but full compatibility is not guaranteed. Updating the system software may improve compatibility. Visit www.us.playstation.com for system software updates.

[pigfister @ Jul 10th 2007 3:12PM]

did they drop the price you say .... did they hell, sonyare right back where they started at launch; one machine for $499 and another for $599. No?

[Darkmoon @ Jul 10th 2007 3:20PM]

Oh yes Sony, great move. Strip out GAMING capability from a GAME console. All so that you can save money because you would rather foist the Blu-Ray movie format on us. It should be noted that the Emotion Engine hardware they are stripping out costs them only $35 per console meanwhile soaking the gullible for the over $400 per console cost for the Blu-Ray drive that could just as easily been a $10 DVD-ROM drive. Can't any of you Sony fan-boys see that Sony is only further sacrificing the PS3's gaming capabilities and turning it into little more than a glorified DVD player? I love my PS2 and refuse to ever upgrade to the PoS3. I refuse to be coerced in such an underhanded matter. The writing is on the walls already with each new gaming company canceling current and future planned PS3 releases because of its abysmal sales. Its ironic that the PS2 still outsells the PS3 by over 5 to 1.

[Ben Hobbs @ Jul 11th 2007 12:29AM]

$35 a console for just the emotion engine, no way, an entire PS2 probably doesn't cost them much more than that, more like $5.

[Dahk @ Jul 10th 2007 4:30PM]

Expletive Expletive.

Stop saying that your PS2 games won't work.
Stop saying that Sony just lost all its gaming capability.

YOU PRESS THE UPDATE BUTTON. And you can already play 73% of all PS2 TITLES. Shizen.
Thats most of your damn library.

AND HELL just get the damn 60 GB version if you care so much about backwards compatibility.

[ben w @ Jul 10th 2007 4:32PM]

100% right - ps3 coulda been so good but they got all selfish, decided to push blu ray with it, nom rumble, let microsoft get a head start bla bla bla

so many mistakes - theyve lost this time!

[Darkmoon @ Jul 10th 2007 5:19PM]

LOL. O.k. fan-boy Dahk, please reread what I typed before you spout off like that and make yourself look stupid. I simply stated that Sony was continuing to sacrifice gaming capabilities of the PS3 on the altar of the Blu-Ray format war. They already significantly scaled back the graphics capability of the PS3 before it launched to cut costs and they are merely continuing that trend. The Cell processor only works with 7 of its 8 cores and the memory capacity and bandwidth are less than half of what it was originally meant to be. The PS3 has about one-fourth the graphics capability of the Geforce 8800GTX because Sony needed to "cut costs" before it was even launched. You don't find it the least bit problematic that more than half the console cost is attributed to its ability to play Sony's Blu-Ray movies rather than for actually playing games?

[Dahk @ Jul 10th 2007 6:32PM]

Uhm. WOW Darkmoon. If by fanboy you mean ignorant bastard who's blindedly in love with PS3, check out your comments.

"Can't any of you Sony fan-boys see that Sony is only further sacrificing the PS3's gaming capabilities and turning it into little more than a glorified DVD player? I love my PS2 and refuse to ever upgrade to the PoS3. I refuse to be coerced in such an underhanded matter. The writing is on the walls already with each new gaming company canceling current and future planned PS3 releases because of its abysmal sales. Its ironic that the PS2 still outsells the PS3 by over 5 to 1."

Calling the PS3 a PoS3, little more than glorified DVD player? Refusing to be coerced into such a matter? Every company completely ditching PS3? Cann you not tell me that your comments are JUST as bad as my bad-day groggy expletives.

FIRST PS2 does not outsell PS3 5 to 1. It is normally on par, previously about 110%-ish (still sad nonetheless - but heck its a 600gram machine - sexy thing). Jeez.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/06/15/us_may_console_sales/
THATS the US hardware sales you were talking about.

Sony has released a lot of high and bold statements that were turned down obviously. If you look at ALL of their interviews, their placement of PS3 is a definite 10 year plan. Blu-ray is included because HD markets are growing exponentially. And growing it is.

http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=63061

Tretton has stated he didn't want a PS2.5 so Blu-ray was the logical choice.

Sony has always stated that it would contain 512 MB RAM, shared between XDR and GDDR VRAM, don't see previous statements about extra memory. 700 MHz on the RSX was down tuned by 50 MHz. Not too sure about memory bandwidth. Also, one-FOURTH of the capabilities of the 8800GTX? It was based off the G70 instead of the G80 for price cuts (mass manufacture on new g80s wouldve owned the ps3's price), but there is no way that it has 25% of its power -_-.

Lastly one core is dedicated to its OS uses, and if they can bring the full integration in with Home, using that core, then I definitely wouldn't mind that.

Certainly, Sony had to cut back to keep the price with the included Blu-ray. It definitely was NOT as drastic as you've stated (though admitedly drastic enough). Blu-ray was necessary for having a long-lasting console. It is what defines the PS3 as what it is, and without it, it would've just been called a PS2.5 seriously. But manufacturing costs are now cut dramatically, as reflective in the price cut.

And your enchanted arms comment, is obvious enough in all PORTS from 360 games. As obvious in the name PORT. i.e. NOT OPTIMIZED for the cell processors.

[Dahk @ Jul 10th 2007 6:43PM]

One last comment.

My apologies for not fully reading your comment. I was traversing the rest of the comments and was getting mad at people implying that they have zero use for their PS2 games, when the ONLY ONE I can see that most people have is MGS3. Which is admitedly quite tragic.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070507PD200.html
Blu-ray Drive is now really only $125. Not $400.

So in conclusion, as a response to your statement, gaming capability is NOT stripped from the PS3 as your over exaggerated comments.

[Darkmoon @ Jul 10th 2007 7:33PM]

You are correct in that the margin is only about 3 to 1 for the month of May - but that is only one month. Sales reports for the first six months since its release show the number is closer to 5 to 1.

As for the graphics capabilities...

1) Graphics chippery:
PS3 = 550Mhz RSX (G71) 24 pixel pipelines
vs.
8800GTX = 575/1350Mhz G80 128 pixel pipelines/shaders

2) Graphics memory bandwidth:
PS3 = RSX 20GB/sec Write & 15GB/sec read (Sony's own specs)
vs.
8800GTX = 86.4GB/sec read/write @ standard 1800Mhz clock

To be fair, the days of consoles defeating PC graphics capabilities are over and really can't be compared anymore given the higher cost of PC graphics cards. The PS2 and Xbox were the last two consoles to have significantly better graphics capabilities than the PCs at the time. The more fair comparison would be against its peers - other gaming consoles. Unfortunately it comes it 2nd place there as well.

As for the porting argument? I suggest a little light reading:
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6162742/

While the PS3s gaming capability/quality isn't significantly inferior to the Xbox 360, the fact that it is inferior at all given its significantly higher cost is the real problem with the PS3.

In the end though it all comes down to price. It isn't a coincidence that the PS2 and Wii are not only the highest sellers but also the cheapest consoles. Then in next in price is the Xbox 360, also significantly outselling the PS3. The ONLY way Sony is going to be able to salvage the PS3 as a competitive gaming console is to introduce a DVD version and drop the price to $300. Since removing Blu-Ray would save them over $400 per console this is quite feasible from a cost standpoint. Of course they will not do this, but rather instead they will be bull-headed and continue on their merry way with Blu-Ray, sacrificing the PS3 in its format war.

[birddog @ Jul 10th 2007 4:33PM]

the ps2 still sells because they market it to other countries/areas where 500 actually is too much to spend for a killer game system.

boo-hoo i have to upgrade my software. own a windows pc?

[Darkmoon @ Jul 10th 2007 6:20PM]

Actually I was referring to just here in the US that its more than 5 PS2s to 1 PS3 sold. Elsewhere the ratio is much, much higher because Sony has for some reason decided to charge nearly $1000US (or more) for the PS3 in other countries. Just about the only ones buying the PS3 here in the US are doing so because it is/was cheaper than a stand alone Blu-Ray player or they are hardcore Sony fanatics. The average consumer isn't about to spend $500-$600 on a game console with less gaming capabilities than a $300-$400 Xbox 360. Take a good, long, close look at screen captures of Enchanted Arms on both the PS3 and Xbox 360. You may not want to see it but the textures are lower-resolution on the PS3 version because the PS3 is a weaker gaming console. (My brother has both consoles and we have compared them.) This is solely because of its sacrifices to the costs of Blu-Ray. BC is just another sacrifice thats been recently added.

[AirStrike X2 @ Jul 10th 2007 5:50PM]

I still haven't bought a PS3 yet, but if I do, 60GB is enough for me.. + It doesen't have that "limited backward compatibilty" stamp on it