Sony preaches the smack to circling PS3 hackers

Sony's PS3 anti-hacker walls are crumbling, with an exploit for 1.10 and 1.11 firmwares recently found, and the announcement of the first copied game to boot on the heretofore unassailable console -- though it isn't actually playable yet, just booting. Sony, of course, isn't taking this lying down, and has threatened legal action to anyone using these new exploits illegally. "Unfortunately, hackers will try to exploit any hardware system software," said SCEA spokesperson Dave Karraker. "The best we can do as a company is to make our security that much stronger and aggressively pursue legal action against anyone caught trying to use an exploit in an illegal manner." Of course, Dave wasn't abundantly clear as to what's "illegal" activity, but soundbites aren't exactly the best place to start bantering about fair use. What is clear is that these are only the opening shots in what promises to be a long war between Sony and the homebrew scene, with the PSP community providing the best example of what Sony most hopes to avoid, for reasons not wholly comprehensible.

[John @ Jun 13th 2007 3:41PM]

Reason #12564 Not to buy a PS3: Sony Legal.

[HyperHacker @ Jun 13th 2007 8:06PM]

Not to mention, allowing hacked systems on Live would make it easy to cheat.

[HyperHacker @ Jun 13th 2007 8:08PM]

Whoops, replied to the wrong comment ^_^;

[gibber9583 @ Jun 13th 2007 3:48PM]

This isnt a big deal. I'm pretty sure MS would take legal action against anyone they knew was hacking their 360 for illegal use. I know MS bans any live accounts running hacked firmware. WHile that isnt taking legal action, it is something. They probably just cant prove what you are doing on the console with a hacked firmware. However, i'd rather legal action taken against me than be banned from LIVE.

[paloooz @ Jun 13th 2007 3:58PM]

Because Microsoft would do it, it's okay for Sony to do it? No. If I buy a console, it's MY hardware. I should be able do whatever I want with it. There's a certain company with a certain product that takes the stance, "It's your hardware, do with it what you please." but I won't mention that company's name for fear of getting ranked low. You know how that is ....

[gibber9583 @ Jun 13th 2007 4:13PM]

You are completely free to do with your hardware what you want to do with it. However, MS and I'm sure Sony, have guidelines that you must abide to use their service(Xbox Live). No hacked firmwares are allowed on Live. I'm sure there is a similar rule on whatever PS3's online is named. Thats my only point. I would have hacked firmware if I did not rely on Live.

[Tavis Veighey @ Jun 13th 2007 4:32PM]

You sir, are a moron!

If I wanted to run Hacked Firmware AND play on LIVE, I would have 2 360's! One would be my online gaming one, the other one would have my hacks on it!

I have a classic XBox Hacked out to the max, I do not play online, so it does not matter to me. If I wanted to play XBOX Online, then I would just get myself another XBOX for Online play!

[gibber9583 @ Jun 13th 2007 4:51PM]

Actually, you sir are the moron. I'd say approximately 95% of my gaming is done over xbox live. You are telling me I should buy another console to play 5% of my gaming? No Thanks.

[paloooz @ Jun 13th 2007 4:53PM]

You just don't get it do you? They shouldn't ban people from XboxLive for hacking their firmware. If I want to run homebrew stuff on my Xbox, I should be allowed to because it's my hardware. There shouldn't be ANY "consequences" for doing that, and Microsoft should make it easy to do so.

It's MY hardware, I should be able to do whatever I want to do with it.

[Drei @ Jun 13th 2007 5:46PM]

"It's MY hardware, I should be able to do whatever I want to do with it."

it's their XBox Live service, they are able to allow and ban whoever they want... so there.

[gibber9583 @ Jun 13th 2007 6:19PM]

Thank you Drei, you beat me to it.


Also, the reason behind MS not allowing hacked firmwares on xbox live is not only to protect their own investment, it is to protect developers. If hacked firmware was allowed on xbox live, people could then play their 'backups' copies over Live. Actually, let me replace 'backups' with 'pirated copies'. If this were allowed, I guarantee that a hell of a lot more people would have hacked firmwares on their 360's

[Zeus the God @ Jun 13th 2007 11:34PM]

Paloooz, you are a certifiable retard. You can do ANYTHING you want with your hardware, as long as it is legal.

You can't play online with a HACKED Xbox because LIVE isn't yours, its a service. It isn't incorporated into your hardware, hence the separate Terms of Service, which clearly states that modding or hacking is bannable. Maybe if you took the time to read...

Again, hacking your Xbox is fine. Its YOUR hardware. Since LIVE is not YOURS, you are not allowed to play with a modified console. If you still reply with your same old canned answer, then you will set the fact that you're a retard in stone.

[James @ Jun 14th 2007 5:00PM]

I don't mean to throw (much) fuel on the fire, but it's kind of *not* "your" hardware, inasmuch as you probably agreed to an EULA the first time you fired it up, or even before that if you took off a sticker that says "use of this device is subject to..." or some such -- I can't remember what my 360 had on it when I bought it.

Anyway, I don't *agree* with using such things to limit what consumers can do with their hardware, but you can't change the business model overnight. See, everybody makes consoles to sell at a loss, then makes back the loss on game licenses. Even without piracy in the picture, people who use a hacked (subsidized) console as a PC replacement don't pay back the subsidy through game licenses. I don't know why that's the standard, but it is. So if Microsoft et al don't have a way to use the law to make people use their hardware the way "they" intended, they wouldn't be able to protect their business model.

For the record, I don't think they *should* be able to do that. But! I fear that if they were forced to sell hardware at a profit (e.g. it was ruled that they can't control what people do once they buy the hardware), they would not bring down the price of games commensurately (to account for no longer needing to make up the loss on the console). I figure they'd just push up the price of the console and say "We have to do this, look at the court ruling, it's not our fault" then keep charging 60 bucks a game.

Also for the record, I owned a hacked Xbox until it crapped out on me -- you can't find a better media extender for a hundred bucks! I also hacked my PSP -- OE firmware features kick the original ones to the curb. I'd hack my 360 if I could "switch modes" between hacked and clean, to go on Live -- I want to use e.g. XBMC on it, but I never want even the option of cheating on Live games, or pirating. Frankly, network-enabling XNA would be good enough. I'd probably even hack my Wii, but in none of those cases would I want to do it for piracy -- I've got the money to support my game habit (especially now that I don't have time to play more than a few hours a week; I'm still getting mileage out of Super Paper Mario, and I bought it on release day). The point is, I like benefiting from the work of hackers, but I can also see it from the console makers' point of view.

[Rob @ Jun 13th 2007 3:54PM]

You would rather have MS give you multiple fines go to court, pay lawyer fees, and most probably have the 360 taken away and ban you from getting another one from a retail store, or ever using a warranty for it anyways. then being banned from Live where you can easily just create a new account and get an ip address change for liek 25$?

sounds like a good choice to me!

[Kurt @ Jun 13th 2007 4:04PM]

Umm...you would have to buy a new Xbox, changing the IP will do nothing for you.

[Andrew Jones @ Jun 13th 2007 4:53PM]

Wow - I haven't seen a nonsensical reply like this in a while! Well done, sir! My favorite bit:

"and ban you from getting another one from a retail store"

Yup- they're going to put up a picture of you in every WalMart, EBGames, GameStop, Game Crazy, Target, Ultimate Electronics, Circuit City, Best Buy, and anywhere else that sells consoles?

Here's your sign.

[Chris @ Jun 13th 2007 7:53PM]

You had a great point, until you referenced a hick in your final zing. Hats off on the rest of it though.

[Evan @ Jun 13th 2007 4:04PM]

"Unfortunately, hackers will try to exploit any hardware system software,"
Uh, I think anyone who is going to bother reading a SCEA comment already knows what firmware is..

[obiwan @ Jun 13th 2007 4:05PM]

If you can't open it, you don't own it.

[KC @ Jun 23rd 2007 7:17AM]

no... if u didnt pay for it , its not yours, therefore, you paid for it, u can smash it, hack it, attached leeches to it, etc.. u dont hav to open it for it to be yours.

[cduran01 @ Jun 13th 2007 4:07PM]

Im sure what they mean by illegal use is pirating of games. And I agree they should come down hard on the pirates.

Also keep in mind that Sony made it extremely easy for linux to be installed on the PS3 as a second dual boot OS. There is absolutely no need to hack the PS3's firmware, we all know where this leads, pirating of software which then gives developers and Sony an excuse for not selling games cheaper. In the end that is what pirates do, they give the industry an excuse to raise pricess and keep them high.

[Matt B @ Jun 13th 2007 4:26PM]

Hmmmmm....

Isn't it cheaper to be legit than to buy a BR burner and BR-RW disks? Not to mention how painfully long it would take to DL gigs of a game that "may" work. Newer games are going to require newer firmware updates so they will have to keep cracking the new updates too. Sounds like an uphill battle to me.

[E-Rock @ Jun 13th 2007 7:24PM]

If you hacked the firmware, why would you be playing from disc and not from the hard drive or network?

[noisia @ Jun 13th 2007 4:28PM]

i never saw any company explaining why they raise the price of the games at the introducing of a new hardware generation...

[drdd @ Jun 13th 2007 4:45PM]

It is absurd to here you people talk about this. First of all, this has nothing to do with MS. But Microsoft has taken the stance repeatedly, that they dont care what you do with their machine. But if you open it, you void your warranty as well as future services. Sony does the same thing. Come to think about it, almost any product does the exact same thing. You tinker with any TV by opening it, and your cable card will not work for the most part, and you void your warranty.

[John @ Jun 13th 2007 4:47PM]

If I owned a PS3, I'll do whatever I damn please to my hardware... It's mine I own it. I'll piss on it, or turn it into a desktop grill, or put an UltraSparc in it, or recode the firmware to play pirated PS3 games. Bite me Sony.

[ET @ Jun 13th 2007 5:35PM]

Over the history of console/pc, allowing piracy had been a factor in pushing sales. I can see Sony wants to slow down hardware sales because each one they sell will cost them money.

[gibber9583 @ Jun 13th 2007 6:24PM]

Piracy did a great thing for the Dreamcast...and we all know how that turned out...

[ET @ Jun 13th 2007 6:29PM]

True that dreamcast flopped, but it did well for NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, DS lite, Wii, PSP

For systems that are hard to pirate and did poorly:
Gamecube, n64.

[gibber9583 @ Jun 13th 2007 7:08PM]

I hardly think you can compare the dreamcast to PS1 or PS2. Both PS1 and PS2 required hardware modification. With the dreamcast, there was no hardware modification required, just patch the image and burn to cdr and you're good to go. As for the NES and SNES, maybe you can enlighten me, but I do not believe there were 'hacks' for those systems to play 'backups'. Downloadable ROMs dont count.

[sos @ Jun 13th 2007 7:41PM]

Yes, downloadable ROMS do count - you just needed a blank or development cart to flash it onto.

[Zeus the God @ Jun 13th 2007 11:37PM]

Sorry, the Game Cube did terribly, but HOW DARE YOU SAY THE SAME ABOUT THE N64, YOU $@#$@$^ )#$)(!?!?!?!

Just kidding, the N64 actually did really well, though.

[ET @ Jun 13th 2007 5:42PM]

Over the history of console/pc, allowing piracy had been a factor in pushing sales. I can see Sony wants to slow down hardware sales because each one they sell will cost them money.

[Sam @ Jun 13th 2007 5:49PM]

I honestly don't mind this if it allows more games to be made and help the PS3. Sony's primary target isn't that people can make their own games and run them, its people pirating copies of games. They are already losing money on the PS3 hardware, they need the game and software sales to break even or get a profit.

[Mike @ Jun 13th 2007 6:01PM]

people are stupid, we all know what hacking the firmware does, it doesn't allow homebrew its purely a piracy hack, oh know heaven forbid they ban me from LIVE cause i steal games, if you cant afford the games you shouldn't have bought the console... plain and simple, Christ these f**ktards annoy the crap outta me

[Aaron @ Jun 13th 2007 6:12PM]

I have to disagree with you there. I don't know what people do with hacked 360s or PS3s, but I know I use my PSP for homebrew (and not pirated games) all the time. I also have a bunch of UMD games that I paid for. Switching up the firmware isn't just for piracy. I don't even know where to go for pirated games and I don't really care. These are great machines, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to unlock their full potential.

[ET @ Jun 13th 2007 6:30PM]

For one person like you, Aaron, there are 100 who does pirating. You are not a good representation of what people are doing out there. I know at least 5 people with psp who went out and buy the the huge 4gb memory stick pro duo not for homebrew.

[jabbe @ Jun 13th 2007 8:29PM]

where's this "it's my console i can do anything i want with it" attitude coming? sure, i guess you can. oh, i own a car i guess i can go run over people with it. after all, i own that car. i could do that but i should have to suffer the inevitable consequences. as should people who hack their console to do ILLEGAL activities (ie playing pirated games)

[drdd @ Jun 13th 2007 8:46PM]

Bad anaolgy...Hacking a PS3 is in no way doing the harm to others that running over someone would do.

[John @ Jun 13th 2007 9:29PM]

That's awful. What you are saying is analogous to saying I use my PS3 to kill someone by throwing it at them. A better analogy would be that you are not allowed to lower, put rims, a new engine, electronics and a giant trash can muffler on your Honda because the manufacturer says so.

[Black Hat @ Jun 13th 2007 9:05PM]

I agree with everyone that said "it's my console and i can do whatever the f**k i wanna do to it"

It brings a smile to my face when i hear about consoles getting hacked and copied games are being made.

Its a beautiful thing.

[Zeus the God @ Jun 13th 2007 11:40PM]

You're just as bad as Paloooz.

You know what brings a smile to my face? Finding out the person who was just modding me in some game got banned from LIVE.

[Michael Francis @ Jun 13th 2007 9:28PM]

Wait one second... its my [i]console[/i] I can do what I want with it right?
So lets see, how many of you own the rights to the game you pirate? I love console modding and hacking and running homebrew, but when it comes to pirating games, I don't own them, its not my right to do what I want to them IE making 'backups'

[jabbe @ Jun 13th 2007 9:47PM]

@John and ddrd
give me a break...save your mock indignation for someone else. a person who willingly lives in democratic society agrees to follow all rules whether they agree with them or not.
i find it funny all the people who act so outraged over this anti-hacking stance these companies take.
instead of being honest such as Black Hat and saying "sure i wanna hack to play copied games" they offer up all these weak excuses such as "no no, i just wanna play homebrew" or "its my console and i can do whatever i want with it" is this how debate is carried on these days, with people obscuring the real issues at hand, such a company legitimately and legally trying to prevent people from ripping them off?

[matjet @ Jun 13th 2007 10:03PM]

This isn't like the psp scene. Thats because the ps3 actually allows you to run any os you like and mod your console how you want. Something the competition doesn't allow. the only people in danger here are those who are illegally pirating games. homebrewers are safe.

[Zeus the God @ Jun 13th 2007 11:41PM]

I thought Sony supported home brew... Lol.

[Rick Lyon @ Jun 14th 2007 8:51AM]

With as much money as Sony loses per unit on purpose to make money selling software, it's funny to see them sneer and show teeth at word they might not make as much from the games after all.

[Cory @ Jun 23rd 2007 8:39PM]

I think that it is funny that everyone knocks the ps3 but there is any talk of the ps3 being hacked all the xbox users come running. I own a ps3, wii and a xbox 360 and by far i have to say that for fun the wii is the one that gets that. But for everything else it all goes to the ps3. And well that will make xbox last.
If anyone hacks the ps3 then so be it if not then that is ok also. I just know that Sony made another great product and everyone else will be playing catch up again!!!!

[AlexRoxUrSox @ Jul 3rd 2007 6:37PM]

Holy heck you guys are so anylatical.
And its a damn shame we lost one of the best hackers in the community!
DARK_ALEX! YOU WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN! MARK MY WORDS! YOU'VE LEFT A LEGACY BEHIND!