HDMI specific Xbox 360 Elite details emerge

If you've been oooing and ahing at the Xbox 360 Elite's HDMI connection -- which really should have been there all along -- then this is the post for you: a source at Microsoft has posted specific details of the Elite's HDMI capabilities. Apparently the Elite will only support the 1.2 HDMI standard, and not the 1.3 spec which would have enabled TrueHD or Dolby Digital+. As such, you'll have to stick with regular DD, DTS, and WMA-Pro for your sound output. It also only supports dual channel PCM output, not full 5.1 channel, and if you want full 5.1 PCM output the tipster cheekily recommends "purchasing the Toshiba A2 player" which is much cheaper than the $479 Elite. At this point the complexity of the tech talk takes a step up, as amirm refers to a fall update that will bring support for "different video levels for VGA output" which could potentially improve fidelity and HDCP handshaking support on displays operating at 1080p. We suspect that around half of the people that started reading this left to read our interview with fake SJ somewhere around the point that we mentioned "dual channel PCM output", but what do the three people left reading think about these HDMI deets?

[Via Loot Ninja]

[Sam @ Apr 1st 2007 1:08PM]

I'm happy with 1080p over component for now.

[PreGHz @ Apr 1st 2007 1:09PM]

You mean, 1080i over component, right?

[PreGHz @ Apr 1st 2007 1:09PM]

So.. uh... Is Microsoft serious about making their fans go out and buy the new box for the HDMI support, at $479, and only half-assedly support it?

I hate to say it, but the PS3's price point keeps looking better and better each day.

[liqwid @ Apr 1st 2007 1:10PM]

Before everyone goes crazy, I want to announce that the Xbox 360 is built for gaming. The multimedia side is just extra. But, remember, that's through HDMI. You get another cable with the 360 Elite that allows you to use optical and other hooplah.

I'd agree. If you want to watch a movie, and want HD DVD, get the Toshiba A2.

[PreGHz @ Apr 1st 2007 1:28PM]

That's not the point though. They are making an "Elite" product but are not including everything that they feasibly could.

Sure, the multimedia side might just be extra, but then why make a new SKU? Why not just release the bigger hard drive?

If you're gonna make a completely new system, make it worthwhile. They could have just made the cooler-running 65nm chips standard across the line and optional black color scheme.

This just adds unnecessary confusion without any real payoff.

[liqwid @ Apr 1st 2007 1:11PM]

You can play 1080p games over component, just not movies.

[Justin Simpson @ Apr 1st 2007 9:18PM]

There is 1080p capability with component!!!!! Not as good as hdmi though. I personall for the 360 use vga.

[Roland Haas @ Apr 1st 2007 1:16PM]

It does give the option for optical audio to be used with HDMI, so in essence, there is no real need to be able to support 5.1 on the HDMI cable as the cable hooks up to the TV and TVs don't have 5.1. If you want 5.1 on HDMI 1.3 you still have to run an optical cable from wither your TV or your xbox360, and Microsoft is saying why bother with 1.3 when they can run an optical cable straight from the xbox360. So yes, there still should be a way to get 5.1 and HDMI, just not on one cable.

[Kevin @ Apr 1st 2007 3:38PM]

Problem with the 5.1 over optical is it doesn't support Full bandwidth 5.1 DD+ and TrueHD soundtracks. It will simply convert these to DD or DTS and send it over Optical. This is why you need 5.1 PCM over HDMI, to allow these high bandwidth codecs to be decoded into PCM and passed through to your receiver. So yeah, the new Xbox 360 Elite isn't so elite after all. The old 360 can do everything this one can just not through HDMI.

[Hayden @ Apr 4th 2007 10:48AM]

Do not get me wrong i love the xbox, but i do not really care about the HDMI unless it is the full deal. All i want is the HDD.

[Alex @ Apr 1st 2007 1:25PM]

man... im just gonna stick with my xbox 360 for now.... im not gonna go spend another $500 for the same thing...

[michael @ Apr 1st 2007 1:27PM]

It's probaly because they're going to make the next gen Xbox even more superior than what they have now. This is just the beginning. Next gen Xbox is probaly going to have many more capabilities and be better than right now. The current 360 is cool, but the next one will be even better.

[Sy @ Apr 1st 2007 5:36PM]

Next gen is already here ...its called the PS3.

[portwineboy @ Apr 1st 2007 1:28PM]

Does the 1.3 standard require a different HW connection? If not I guess this could be addressed in an update later.

@liqwid I disagree. The 360 was built as a multimedia platform...and it's a pretty good one.

[Hiro of Time @ Apr 1st 2007 1:37PM]

I am interested to hear more about the improved VGA. I hope we see that soonish.

[BloodFalcon @ Apr 1st 2007 1:36PM]

#1 NO WIFI
#2 NO REMOTE CONTROL
#3 NO internal HDDVD drive
= WASTE OF MONEY

I'm starting to believe that Microsoft just put the system out in Black (like Apple did the Ipod) so every single school kid out there could come to school saying "HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW XBOX?"

It does the exact same thing as the old one - and the newer chipset only runs cooler - not providing any higher performance.

Include a fairly priced Wifi in the system and the remote control at least. Overpriced pieces of...

[Carbonize @ Apr 1st 2007 2:09PM]

WiFi = Extra cost
Remote Control = Extra Cost
Internal HD-DVD = Mucho extra cost

As I, and I'm sure many other 360 owners, really don't want these features we're glad they are not there as they would just push the price up.

Remote Control = To lazy/stupid to use the joypad as the remote.

Microsoft made the right decision in not slapping a next gen drive into the 360. Not only would it up the price but it would also limit them. With the external drives they have left their choices open. Right now they only have an external HD-DVD drive but who's to say that they won't release an external Blu-Ray drive at some point? Or even better a dual drive.

[Quicksilver @ Apr 1st 2007 1:44PM]

Well from what it sounds like those of us with the current gen xbox 360 using vga and optical will actually get better sound then those who get the elite? II have mine set up that way to my surround sound and I thought i was getting TrueHD audio when I was watching movies through th ehd-dvd player? Am I wrong?

[Matt Tyndall @ Apr 2nd 2007 12:00PM]

Umm Mr. Nevelo S I believe you are wrong. You can get full digital sound via optical cable. Optical sound actually works better then HDMI in most cases because it can do the same quality and is more adapted to the receievers.

[Rajiv Kotecha @ Apr 1st 2007 1:59PM]

@Roland Haas:

You can get 5.1 over HDMI, just not the next gen audio formats such as DTS TrueHD or DD+, you still get vanilla Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1, these were/are supported on the HDMI spec from day dot (1.0), its just that HDMI 1.3 adds support for the next gen audio formats.

[Zedd @ Apr 1st 2007 2:04PM]

Yeah, you can't get True HD audio from an optical output (as far as I've heard), you need the HDMI 1.3 for that. Since Microsoft didn't include it, it isn't possible to watch your HD-DVD movies with TrueHD audio on the 360. For the guy who said that you can't get 5.1 sound (and thus TrueHD) from an HDMI anyway when it's hooked up to your TV, that's also true. What you should be doing however (if you have the budget) is hooking it up to your av-receiver.

[BloodFalcon @ Apr 1st 2007 6:51PM]

While I can agree with the extra cost of adding the HDDVD drive, it would not cost MS as much to add wifi as it is costing to add HDMI.

#1 The Wifi unit is OVERPRICED by about 90%. That cheap little device should cost no more than $10, ($40 if you are determined to make a profit).
It would cost MS far less to add a Wireless G or Wireless N adapter to the internal components that it did to redesign the entire backside for the HDMI output. Wireless signals permeate the case and require no case changes.

#2 There is a reason to have the remote and its very simple. Some people use their 360's as a media center (as it was intended by advertisement). A controller is big and clunky, and terrible as a remote.

Why are you so quick to call a CONSUMER lazy/stupid?

Obviously they weren't lazy enough to make the $400 to spend on this overpriced piece of plastic.

Stop with the fanboy bullisht

[Carbonize @ Apr 1st 2007 7:07PM]

So disagreeing with you makes me a fanboy? My last console was an Xbox which I bought when Halo 2 came out and now I own a 360 (Premium).

Yes SOME people use their 360s as media centres but the magic word is SOME.

"Obviously they weren't lazy enough to make the $400 to spend on this overpriced piece of plastic."

Or they got their parents to buy it for them.

"I'm also a big dissapointed I have to actually pay $50 a year for Xbox Live when my PS3 is free - and PS3 is the newer, beefier system."

The fact that everyone agrees that Xbox live is miles better than anything Sony has to offer. Hey sell your Xbox and go play online with your PS3 if it bothers you that much. I'll stick with my 360 and Xbox live.

I'd say the fact you bought both consoles is a sign you need to get out more.

[AndrewNeo @ Apr 1st 2007 10:14PM]

In response to Wifi, and mostly to BloodFalcon, yes, the Wifi is 90% or more overpriced. I paid $5 after rebate for a great USB 802.11b/g dongle. And don't forget, even the Nintendo DS and the Wii both have built in wifi, and for the price of the 360 wifi adapter you could buy a good portion of either of those systems.

[AKM74 @ Apr 1st 2007 2:26PM]

Maybe April fool joke? If MS “Elite” so technically inferior to PS3, I wonder what piece of s… they selling for 399???

[ben @ Apr 1st 2007 2:33PM]

well if i am to pay 80 more bucks for the color black, hd dvd and some other components that are truthfully uneccesary for the average gamer. why should i buy it?

we are now in a day and age where everything is constantly updated and nothing ever satisfies the consumers thirst of greed. iF you really wanna add something make it compatable with a whole networking with in your house. so it would be an all around system and have eletrical plug in's that all play off each other and have an optical turn on. seriously. how lazy will we become?

[August @ Apr 1st 2007 3:51PM]

How stupid are you?

[PreGHz @ Apr 1st 2007 3:02PM]

Dude, make more sense.

[Meep @ Apr 1st 2007 2:42PM]

LIke another guy said, i'm more interested about the vga settings. Hopefully it'll include a option for native 16:10 resolutions such as those used by most widescreen monitors.

[Roland Haas @ Apr 8th 2007 1:40AM]

Actually, optical does support 5.1, but it has to be a 5.1 encoded source such as a DVD movie or 5.1 encoded game. My creative X-Fi has no problem sending 5.1 over optical from a movie to my logitech z5500s.

[confuciou @ Apr 1st 2007 9:08PM]

They should have made the dvd drive removable so it could be upgraded to hddvd without an extra box/cable.

[Eug @ Apr 1st 2007 4:08PM]

ALL released versions of HDMI (including even 1.0) can output uncompressed multichannel PCM. HDMI 1.3 is not required.

[Freez @ Apr 1st 2007 4:09PM]

What about up-conversion? Any indication that Microsoft will at some point add HD upconversion for standard DVDs now that there's an HDMI connection?

[Eug @ Apr 1st 2007 4:11PM]

The Xbox 360 already offers DVD upconversion, but only over VGA. It is not allowed over component.

Fortunately, it is allowed for HDMI, so I'm sure it will have it for both VGA and HDMI (but not component).

[cyberdude_rules @ Apr 1st 2007 4:28PM]

These FACTS ARE WRONG.

HDMI 1.3 NOT NEEDED to support TrueHD or DD+. 1.3 ONLY adds a better color space and bandwidth support for 2k and 4k video. In fact HDMI 1.3 is not even really needed. The Toshiba HD-A1 is HDMI 1.2 and supports TrueHD over HDMI. My Onkyo receiver is also 1.2 and using TrueHD is no issue.

[picasotriggerfish @ Apr 2nd 2007 12:40AM]

Toshiba HD-A1 is HDMI 1.0. It doesn't do 1080p, it only does 1080i. The HD-A2 is only 1.0 as well. Only the HD-20 does 1080p over 1.2, and is going to be sold for $499

[404error @ Apr 1st 2007 4:37PM]

It's not that 1.3 is required it's that the Xbox 360 does not have the capability to output HD audio. From the insider: "I was not talking about HDMI data path. But internal data path in 360 for audio on the way out to HDMI bridge." Read the rest of that guy's posts please.

[mmiikey @ Apr 2nd 2007 1:50PM]

check this out, i pasted it from an xbox forum, it makes a lot of good points.

-----------------------------------------------------------------


There's a lot of misunderstanding about what it all means. People are even getting defensive about it because it doesn't jive with their own vision of how things should be.

First, I want you to consider the PS2. It launched at $299, and was $299 until Xbox decided to drop, and PS2 followed. The price has continued to drop until it got to the price it is now: $129. During that time, it has sold over 110 million consoles worldwide.

Now look at that from Microsoft's point of view. There's a potential market out there of at least 110,000,000 consoles. Most of those won't happen until the 360's price drops. The 360 has a lot in common with the PS2: Launched a year early in all territories, had a large amount of games available before the competition hit the street with their console and a small handful of games, and will hold its lead AND IT'S PRICE for a couple of years before the first drop, allowing them to actually make some money on the console for a change.

There's one big difference. The PS2 was the PS2 was the PS2 and if you wanted one, you got... the PS2. Parts and pieces came and went, and depending on when you decided to jump in depended on which system you had: thick or thin, HDD compatible or not, Network adapter included or optional, progressive scan DVD or not, quieter fan or not, i-link or not...

Xbox launched the same way. It was a "get the foot in the door" approach by Microsoft that cost them a lot of money, but paid off in the long run. MS was now treated as a serious player in the game industry. One console. Period.

With the 360, it took a different approach: Two versions, an entry level and a hardcore level. It was a way for them to launch big AND at the same time, capture that first "price drop" customer.

---

10 million people now own 360's, but there's still 100 million potential customers that Microsoft wants playing their 360 and buying 360 games. What do you do to get 100 million people to jump in?

Oh yeah, it's easy to say "drop the price." MS is known for ALL the money they've made and continue to make, and somehow that justifies biting the bullet and just giving stuff away because they can. It doesn't work that way. One competitor is priced so much higher than what is expected for a game console that even some hardcore gamers are passing, at least until THE killer games arrive. The other competitor entered at the price-drop price point with a novelty controller and has not been able to meet demand.

With a situation like that, there is no reason at all to drop the price. The console is not selling to many people's expectations, but it is not selling poorly at all, and the games are blowing the doors off.

So here's what Microsoft has done in an attempt to capture the 100 million gamers who haven't committed yet to this generation.

They've offered a choice.

Three, actually.

There's good: An Xbox 360 that plays all the same games as the rest of the 360 family, no hard drive which keeps the price down, and a choice of either a 64MB memory card (now $29.99) or a larger 512 MB memory card ($49.99), less than half the price of a hard drive. The $299 Core, for entry-level 360 gamers.

There's better: The Xbox most of us own is exactly the same as the Core, with the addition of a hard drive for storage and a wireless controller instead of a wired one. It also supports the memory cards for moving your gamertag from one console to another as well. Everything the Premuim does, the Core does, and vice versa. The $399 Premium, for active gamers.

And now, there's best: The new Xbox that is identical to the Core and Premium in EVERY way, but for two: It has an HDMI port for televisions that support it, and it has a larger harddrive for 360 owners who do more downloads or want to store more music. Oh, and it's black, which doesn't affect the performance. Much. The $479 Elite, for gamers who are also videophiles.

All the drives, all the chips, all the guts are identical.

The systems come with three variations of television hookup: Composite for the Core, Composite/Componant for the Premium, and HDMI/Composite/Componant for the Elite. The Elite also allows you to use you choice of HDMI for audio, or Optical/RCA for audio if you want to run it to a surround sound.

The systems come with three variations of storage: None, 20 GB and 120 GB. Wanna change what your system uses for storage? Then pick your storage of choice: $29 mem card, $49 mem card, $99 HDD or $179 HDD.

What does this mean for you, the gamer who already owns a 360?

NOT ONE DAMN THING.

This is about the customers 360 doesn't have yet. Sure, you're not exempt from "movin' on up" if you want. There's a couple of ways to do it. One, if you want the HDMI, you can just buy yourself a second 360: an Elite. Trade in or sell your original and apply it to the purchase price. Two, you can just buy the HDD. In the "big picture" you will have spent more than the actual cost of an Elite, but you're only having to come up with $179 now, and not $479. And you can probably still get a few bucks for your 20GB drive from a Core owner.

Understand: this move isn't about placating current owners. It's about offering options to new owners. Sure, I wish I had an Elite. Would I have traded the past year and a half of gaming to have one? Hell no.

---

I want to talk a little bit about the cost of the HDD. I'm going to fudge a little bit on my NDA, without shattering the thing to holy hell. The 20 GB drive sells alone for $99. I know what it actually costs. No, I'm not telling. But I will tell you this: MS is NOT screwing you over by asking $99 for the drive. I know you can get drives cheaper, even much bigger drives. But those drives work with multiple devices and that drives the cost down. Xbox drives work only on Xboxes and that makes them more expensive. They can't sell them to 3,000 other machines to drive the price down. I know, I know... Sony comes with a 60GB and allows you to use any additional drive. Now the Elite comes with a 120GB - twice the size of Sony's, so you don't HAVE to add an additional drive. With the Elite, you STILL get more for less. It's also extra insurance against hackers working their way into the system.

---

Now, about WiFi. Remember when it was Wireless A? How about B? G? Tomorrow it's R or L or F... I dunno. But once you build a permanant device into a machine that utilizes a technology that is constantly changing... you've got a few choices: One, take an established standard that is well rooted. Two, try and predict the future and act accordingly. Three, offer it as an optional and changeable. (Most really active LIVE gamers perferred wired anyway. If you've played with someone with a slow router... you'd understand).

For One, that is what Microsoft did with the DVD. Blu-Ray might win the next gen war. HD DVD might win the next gen war (if they get off their asses and release some movies.) Or HD content might come through streaming or downloads. But DVD is set in stone so that's what Microsoft chose for the 360 disc format. DVD WILL be a viable format five years from now. But they added the HD DVD drive as an option for movie lovers.

For Two, that is what Microsoft did with broadband in the Xbox. Boy did people poop pottery when MS made that decision. They weren't even to the end of the generation before the PS2 Slim started shipping with a little sticker on the back that said "broadband only."

For Three, that is what Microsoft chose to do about WiFi. It's changing too fast. You lock it down, you're stuck with it. It's a bad position they may find themselves in by including HDMI AT THEIR CUSTOMER'S REQUEST, because as the standard moves from 1.1 to 1.2 to 1.3 and on up, what you got is what you got. It's not something that could be added to the existing tech like a WiFi adapter. It required changing the board which is why they didn't just come out with a cable and adapter. They did it for you, or rather, the people who want such things. It's there if you want it and you can pass if you don't. But when it goes to some other standard (all optical video/audio?) they'll have to modify it again, and current 360 owners will be chaffed AGAIN, but it's the nature of the beast. If you want to be cutting-edge, it's going to hurt. That's kinda why they CALL it "cutting edge."

You think the PS3 is future proofed better than the 360? Is it doing upscaling? The new version will. Is it supporting rumble, that last gen feature? Apparently, it will... again. But where Microsoft is offering you choices, Sony will just change the console like it did with the PS2, and what you get depends on when you jumped in. Tech changes, and you either adapt... or stay old and change your controller.

---

65 nm chips. For the uninformed and in layman's terms: it's the 360 CPU, on a smaller chip that puts out less heat and costs less. IF and WHEN they finally go to this chip, most likely you'll never know. IT IS NOT IN THE ELITE. There's no obvious performance difference adn unlike a DVD tray that pops out for inspection, there's no way to check under the hood to see what chip you've got... and it wouldn't matter anyway. It is my opinion that basing your console buying decision on whether the chip is 90 nm or 65 nm is like saying you want the pink one. It's a matter of preference, not performance, but do what you like.

[Justin @ Apr 1st 2007 5:14PM]

Wow. This isn't a jump from composite to component. Who really cares about this crap.

As long as MS doesn't require a 20gb download for a game, I could care less about the specs of this black box.

I bet the percentage of people who really care about this upgrade are very very small.

[msapoz1 @ Apr 1st 2007 7:06PM]

Laugh... I have both and there isn't any reason to think PS3 is any better than the Xbox especially if you are talking about games.

[RyanTV @ Apr 1st 2007 5:46PM]

i just really want to know what hoops you are going to have to jump through in order to get all of your data from your old 20gb hdd over to the 120gb hd on the elite.

[Shmoe @ Apr 1st 2007 6:12PM]

I agree with mmiikey, most gamers and movie people would rather use the ether net port. Wired will always be more reliable. I just want to know if the Elite includes gigabit ethernet like the original should have.

[Joel @ Apr 1st 2007 8:13PM]

What exactly makes this system so elite? A bigger hard drive and an hdmi output? That doesn't justify the price hike, The PS3 is looking like a better option already. Why would they not include HDMI 1.3? It allows for passing of the next gen audio formats, but also runs much higher color depth. Current HDMI tops out at 24 bit color at 1.2. HDMI 1.3 can run up to 48- bit color. For you computer guys out there you know how nice that is.

[BloodFalcon @ Apr 1st 2007 8:19PM]

YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT MAKES THE ELITE SO LATE?

The fact that Microsoft is watching SONY's moves so they can decide what to do next.

[BloodFalcon @ Apr 1st 2007 6:59PM]

As much as I agree with you that the PS3 is more "Next Gen" than the Xbox 360, I am sorely dissapointed that all I can do with my PS3 is use it as a net browser while waiting for Warhawk and games (that I actually want to play) to come out).

I am glad I bought both systems cause C&C3 isn't going to come out on PS3 and MGS4 isn't coming out on the 360 - I don't wanna miss out on anything.

I'm also a big dissapointed I have to actually pay $50 a year for Xbox Live when my PS3 is free - and PS3 is the newer, beefier system.

[picasotriggerfish @ Apr 2nd 2007 12:52AM]

How could you look at the PS3 online network and Xbox Live and say you like PS3's network more?

[BloodFalcon @ Apr 1st 2007 7:20PM]

In my opinion, SONY did more things right in building the PS3 than Xbox did building the 360.

#1 CHOOSING A NEXT GENERATION storage standard.
Blu Ray is outselling HDDVD (partly because Sony offers incentives to buy the BR movies) but ultimately, Blu Ray can hold more data than HDDVD so even if BluRay fails as a game disk, it will most likely succeed as a storage media. I don't see it failing though.

Blu Ray is supported by many more companies than HD DVD. I find it suspect that Microsoft supports HD DVD just not enough to instal it in their flagship game system.

Putting BluRay in the PS3 was brilliant because it gives the PS3 more boasting points - and when you compare the $500/$600 pricetag of PS3 to the common $1000 Blu Ray player, it justifies its price tag.

[ALSO REMEMBER - that because PS2 came with a DVD player at a time when DVD players were $800 or more, it allowed PS2 to sell extremely well in both America and Japan as a DVD player for people not neccesarily enthralled in gaming]


#2 INCLUDING WiFi

People on engadget can keep claiming that gamers dont need WiFi but thats just fanboyism. Wireless G is all that is needed to get solid speed and connections from a wireless lan. The problem is that MS's wireless adapter is about 90% OVERPRICED at $100 (making a can of fish eggs look like GOURMET CAVIAR). It should only be $49 at MOST. Just like the wireless headset which should cost less than $20 yet they are pimping for $50. Microsoft is milking unweary gamers for as much $ as possible.

If you are so certain that wireless standards are so quick to change, why has MS not changed with them? Why has MS not released a new 802.11N router (painted Black) for wireless homes?


#3 PS3 can be played FREE over the internet and can be used as an internet browser that does pretty much everything an entry level internet PC does. I know cause I have both the PS3 and the 360 (just so happens I am using the PS3 to type this as I speak). The only downside to the PS3 is the lack of killer apps at launch. Where is my Warhawk? Where is my Twisted Metal?


#4 $100 for a 20 Gigabyte HDD is a RIP OFF. Only a fanboy could claim that it isn't. I got a 200 Gigabyte HDD 20% cheaper than that from Tiger Direct

[Carbonize @ Apr 1st 2007 7:34PM]

I love the fact that you call me a fanboy when you are blatantly a Sony fanboy. Specially when you start spouting all the "Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD" crap.

I think you said it best when you said, "I'm also a big dissapointed"

If you don't like your Xbox and XBox live then sell it. I, for one, wont miss you.

WiFi is not needed. WiFi is really only needed for portable devices that get moved round a lot.

Oh and I really am not surprised that you are using your PS3 to browse the internet since most people I know with one say thats about all it's good for.

Take your Sony fanboy whining and go cry me a river over your poor selection of games and lousy online play.

[NeoteriX @ Apr 1st 2007 7:35PM]

"#4 $100 for a 20 Gigabyte HDD is a RIP OFF. Only a fanboy could claim that it isn't. I got a 200 Gigabyte HDD 20% cheaper than that from Tiger Direct"

Yes, but only a fool could overlook the fact that the specific comparison made is completely invalidated by the fact that it is comparing two different types of hard drives.

Everyone and their mom knows that you can get a 3.5" DESKTOP hard drive for less than pennies on the megabyte. Try sourcing that same hard drive in a 2.5" LAPTOP form factor, the ones used in the 360 and other semi-portable devices.

Try looking up your 200GB 2.5" hard drive. It'll run you maybe $200 average street price.

I'm not saying the hard drive isn't overpriced, but regardless, you're still a moron.

[NeoteriX @ Apr 1st 2007 7:19PM]

"65 nm chips. For the uninformed and in layman's terms: it's the 360 CPU, on a smaller chip that puts out less heat and costs less... There's no obvious performance difference... It is my opinion that basing your console buying decision on whether the chip is 90 nm or 65 nm is like saying you want the pink one. It's a matter of preference, not performance, but do what you like."

Eh, wrong.

A 65 nm chip is like getting the same horsepower sports car, but instead of getting only 15 mpg, it gets 25 mpg. I personally want the 65 nm chip for four reasons.

1) As a customers somewhat concerned with the bricked 360s I've read about, it seems that going with a system with an even slightly redesigned mobo/chip will perhaps reduce the risk.
2) It runs cooler--something that will most likely reduce the fan noise complaint
3) It runs cheaper: using the smaller fabrication will drop power consumption too.
4) It's actually cheaper: I'm hoping Microsoft will find it in its heart to pass the savings onto the consumer, given the cheaper fabrication costs.