PS3 doesn't do 1080i?
By Richard Lawler 
posted Nov 16th 2006 1:07PM
posted Nov 16th 2006 1:07PM
That's what IGN has discovered in testing several PlayStation 3 games. Despite 1080p being "the true definition of HD", most of the titles available are rendered internally at 1280 x 720 and scaled up accordingly... or at least that's what should happen. On many older CRT HDTVs that only support 1080i input and not 720p, instead of scaling to the appropriate HD resolution, the PS3 goes back down to the positively Wii-like EDTV standard of 480p. The problem is confirmed to exist in Resistance: Fall of Man, Tiger Woods 07, Need for Speed Carbon and NHL 2K7 so far, but no word from Sony if this can or will be fixed in a downloadable update. The Xbox 360 scales to 1080i without a problem -- although 1080p results may vary -- if you're not reading this from your place in line already be sure to check your HDTV's manual for supported input resolutions before grabbing a lawn chair (and bulletproof vest).[Thanks, Michael J.]
Get your facts straight. PS3 is designed to support HD through progressive scan (480/720/1080p). However, PS3 can also support interlaced signals they just need a new firmware update. PS3 was designed to run on progressive scan, which is superior to interlaced, so this can be the reason why it cannot display the interlaced signals properly. Nevertheless, Xbox360 supports HD-DVDs and DVDs through 480p only if it is connected through component, 1080p movies will only be displayed through VGA. Not all TVs contain VGA inputs. PS3’s problem can be fixed through a firmware upgrade, however, Xbox360’s problem cannot be fixed when the HDCP kicks in.
Hey hannibalchew, ps2 outselling the 360 is like mcdonalds selling more food units than ruth's chris ... doesn't mean it's better.
HAHA Stupid PS3, Sony is lying again, much rather pick up a 360 and pay less than wait in line for days in the cold and risk getting thrown out of line by BestBuy or getting shot by BBs.
So, it is as Microsoft has always said.
The XBox360 will render at 720p, 1080i, or 1080p.
The PS3, if it can't do 1080p, will reduce to 720p, or 480p.
From looking at the graphics, it seems as if the PS3 at $600 (Premium) is not quite the value if you can get the XBox 360 - Premium from Microcenter for only $300!
Way to go Sony!
"Today is a GREAT DAY for HD-DVD!"
Oh, and also it seems as if the PS3 CAN NOT upscale regular DVDs to Hi-Def! It only will show them at 480p regardless.
Whereas the XBox 360 will upscale (and does a wonderful job of it too) any DVD to HD resolutions!
Pretty sick, I'm one of those with an "old" crt hdtv that displays 1080i and 480p
I know is off topic but does anyone know if a 360 on a bravia can do 1080p with vga cables ? i have 1080i over component but i can´t google a specific answer to this ...
What HDTV DOESN'T scale 720p input to 1080i??? Are there any?
I use Xbox media center at 720p on my Sony XBR910 because I like the way the TV scales 720p to 1080i better than the way media center handles 1080i.
Were I to buy a PS3, I'd get it as a cheap-ass Blu-Ray player and not even bother playing games on it very often. In this regard, I have two questions. I have a true 1080p Samsung... and after reading this post, I'm confused... will the PS3 show 1080p on it or not? It's a question so easy that it has become hard in my brain.
My second question is... are there any Blu-Ray players on the horizon that are sub-$500 so I can skip the PS3 and wait for a dedicated player?
when watching a blueray movie the ps3 will do 1080. the games are what can't do 1080.
it is interesting to hear why you are buying a ps3, because maybe people like you are going to scew the ps3 sales. i guess that is a good thing for sony. i like games too, and don't know if i want a ps3 yet(at least at 600 dollars, because come on, you have to get the nice one)
I would HOPE that this only applies to game titles, and not BluRay movies, otherwise the best (non-game) advantage of the PS3 is blown...
Anyone know the answer on the movie front yet?
Well as an admitted MS XBOX Fanboy, I think this is a small oversight that will most likely be fixed with a firmware update... give it a week. Don't think it's THAT big a deal. It only deserves 2 HA's, so HAHA.
@ Dave: No sub $500 BR players on the horizon man... least not to my knowledge. Give it another year... or get a 20GB PS3... for $499?
Most CRT HDTV's cannot display 720p. Nor do they scale 720p to 1080i.
"Most CRT HDTV's cannot display 720p. Nor do they scale 720p to 1080i."
This is completely untrue, and it's why this is a non-story.
Any HDTV that cannot display 720p could not even display ABC or Fox. Who would buy a TV on which they could not watch 2 of the 4 major networks? (Let's remember, "HDTV" means it has a built-in OTA tuner.) *All* CRT HDTV's, then, can display 720p content either natively (in a few cases) or at 1080i.
There are a few CRT-based HD *monitors* that cannot display 720p, but even most of these can because early HD outboard tuners wouldn't scale either - so monitors have always been built to do so. So it's really only a few very early and a few very late monitors that aren't capable of scaling (the early ones because the situation was unsettled, the late ones in an effort to cut costs as CRT monitors faded out of the market). I would think you could probably count the number of people that actually own sets like this on two hands and a foot.
People are just taking any little bit of negative PS3 news and piling on at this point. This story affects almost nobody.
I own a CRT HDTV, so I'm not just talking out my ass. I have a $500 26" Samsung and it displays 720p content at 1080i just fine.
Is sony trying to kick themselves in the nuts?
With Resistance, I had to go into my PS3 video settings and basically disable 1080i for it to display in 720p (my TV does both). The game prompted me with a message saying I needed to set 720p as my max resolution if I wanted to play it that way (I don't have 1080p).
I also had to disable Dolby Digital to get any sound at all (I'm connected to a receiver with an optical cable).
This is going to be a huge pain in the ass if you have to manually go in and change video/sound settings depending on what game you're playing or movie you're viewing.
It is truly dissapointing that Sony has removed so called "Premium Features" from their console. I especially feel sorry for the thousands who are right now waiting in the rain, cold and wind to be amongst the first to acquire a system which has mislead so many.
So, the system...
Will not fully support HDTV (1080i is the most common resolution)
Support DLNA or Streaming Media of any kind.
Upsample DVDs to HD Resolution.
Support (2) HDMI outputs (important for HT use).
Come with a basic HDMI cable.
Poor, poor Sony - you promised do much, yet fail to deliver!
Well my 1 year old Panasonic 30 inch CRT cannot scale to 720p. I can watch any HDTV station because most if not all cable/satellite boxes can scale to the resolution inside the box. Also the XBOX360 has no problems with outputing 1080i for all games. So I would see this as a major design flaw by Sony if there box could not do the same.
The problem is no that there tv's don't display 720pp its that the ps doesn't simply upscale the picture to 1080i as most hd boxes and xbox 360 does. Which is why people have no problem watching 720p ABC and fox on there tv which doesn't support 720p. I actually have one of these tv's as a cheep 2 hdtv all I had to do was tell my sa8200 to upscale 720p channels to 1080i which suprisingly the ps3 cannot do right now.
My CRT HDTV does NOT handle any sort of 720p signal. My cable box is set to convert that into 1080i, as is my 360. So you're incorrect, and 2 of my 3 friends with CRT HDTVs are in the same boat. Not all TVs can convert a 720 signal like you claim. I have no idea of which is in the majority, but I do know your statement is wrong.
Don't be a moron; don't post if you don't know what you are talking about. Pretty much every rear projection CRT HDTV bought a few years ago only supports 480i 480p and 1080i. If you put 720p to those tv's they will display garbage. Every digital box (Samsung, Comcast, Dish network) outputs all the networks at 1080i with no problem.
Actually Jeff, this is untrue.
Most HDTV sets will upconvert from 720p to 1080i when using the Tuner.
However, almost all CRT sets which do not support native 720p (and there are many) bypass this when you come in via any other input, such as HDMI or Component as they assume this is the resolution you want. Ergo if the system can not upscale to 1080i (and the PS3 it appears can not) then you are stuck with 480p!
Yes, mespinosam, it can do 1080p over VGA to a 1080p set.
So with those cables it means now the xboxs can upscale regular dvds to 720 according to the new update released ?
thanxs , ill be buying them tonight !!
You know its funny, I was setting my PS3 up last night and it only gave me the 720p maximum on my 1080i JVC. I think sony knows this is bad and Xbox now has a bit of an advantage, I think an update will fix this problem. Honestly 720p looks pretty sweet so its no big deal for me
Unbelieveable. Sony, Sony, Sony. PS3 = Tardpack
Makes me glad I bought an Xbox 360, with my old (purchased in 2000) CRT TV that only does 480i, 480p and 1080i.
My set supports both 720p and 1080i, but not 1080p. If I'm reading this right the best resolution I can get with the PS3 on my HDTV would be 720p?
This is a very big deal...My TV like most CRT and Rear Projection HDTV sets that have been sold in the last 5 years only accepts 1080i and 480p. So if the PS3 does not output in 1080i...for me and many others it means that the PS3 will downrez to 480p. That's last gen visuals on a $600 box. So yes this is a very big deal.
It means that the PS3 is useless for High Def gaming on a huge number of HDTV sets which may be older but are still in use. Hell my best friend bought a 34" CRT HDTV just last year and it only accepts 1080i. So even though his TV is brand new the PS3 would not provide hime with a High Def experience.
I wander if this is also the case for Blu-Ray movies? If so this will be a deal breaker for many that wanted this just for he Blu-Ray player.
My Xbox 360 up-converts the native 720p games to 1080i(most all games are created for 720p for the 360) so that it outputs a 1080i signal to my TV set. This internal upconversion is absolutley necesarry for folks like me and believe you me there are many of us out there.
Also there are reports that old games don't get a boost in resolution as the 360 does. And I'm not talking about upconverting here...all original Xbox games are rendered at higher resolution with antialiasing on the 360...which is much better than a simple upconversion. Also all normal DVD movies get upconverted to 480p, 1080i and 1080p depending on what your TV set can handle on the 360. The PS3 won't do that either.
So not only does the PS3 need an extra purchase of HDMI or component cables to provide HD experience...but it also needs a Flat Panel TV (most all are 720p) or a newer TV set that does not use 1080i only for HD.
If it isn't progressive, it isn't High Def in my book. So you have a widescreen 1080i picture? IT'S STILL INTERLACED LIKE REGULAR TV!!!!!
Sony knows this. They aren't stupid. 720p and 1080p only means that Sony is committed to bringing progressive only to the table. Instead of going "you either get big progressive, bigger interlaced, and bigger progressive" Sony says "Progressive only, except if you live in a cave with your 90's CRT!".
And if you HONESTLY bought a PS3 for 1080i, you really should have donated or burned your money. Unless you have 1080p TV and the Xbox plays better than Sony, you have no reason to complain.
If I'm going to burn $2,000 or more on a set, I'm going to damn well make sure it's progressive and not simply "Widescreen TV".
So is news only related to 720p games? Because it seems that is what it affects. Sought of like when Tony Hawk Underground 2, and American wasteland for the orginal Xbox, would never output correctly on my 1080i HDTV, and I had to play it at 480p. It was designed for 720p. But things like XMBC and GT4 scaled to 1080i no problem.
And by the way 1080i ain't that sweet for fast motion, but thats just my opinion.
Some people I know, like myself, still have good old 480i and 480i as possible inputs. As long as my ~1980s tv can display the signal I will be happy.
"If it isn't progressive, it isn't High Def in my book."
Your kidding right? Have you seen 720p compared to 1080i? They are very similar on most sets...to the point most folks won't tell the difference. So Sony has defined True HD as 1080p and now even 1080i is struck down from being High Def at all? This is lutacris.
I am sorry to say, but unless corrected, this is where Sony has shot itself in the foot.
Most CRT HDTVs can display 480p and 1080i - they will see 480p
Most Current HDTVs can display 480p, 720p and 1080i - they will see 720p
A SMALL handful of VERY RECENT sets can display 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p - ONLY THEY will see 1080p
Now for the issue of 1080i vs. 1080p, for film playback there is no difference! NONE AT ALL!!! It is not an issue of it being so small that most won't notice, THERE IS NONE!!! (Too long a technical explaination - Google it).
As for video material (like video games) there is a small difference between 1080i and 1080p in fast action sequences. This however, can be greatly minimized by a good deinterlacing algorithm.
In the end, it looks as if the XBox 360 handles HDTV MUCH MUCH BETTER than the new PS3, which has again put a Next Generation feature out there, only to Delay the System and Drive up the Price!
"Porsche 911: Get your facts straight."
Dude, if you tell people to get their facts straight you might want to have them straight yourself!
The 360 HDDVD player can display all the way up to 1080i via component cables. The DVD drive also scales DVD up to 1080i.
Boom! Sit down.
Anyone else confused by all the numbers and letters?
Due to content protection, HD movies with full 720p/1080i/1080p will be viewable through VGA only. This is to prevent HD movie piracy. You should get your facts straight.
Owned!
If its a simple as a firmware update like everyone on here is pretty much saying and they knew that there were still alot of people out there with 1080i sets, then why didn't they just include the firmware in the first place??
Seems like Sony is just trying to push another format on us (1080p) and maybe getting people to spend $2000-3000 on a different HDTV just so they can play FFXIII in 1080p, which while it is good also drives up the price
shirizaki: On my TV, 1080i looks better to me than 720p. Yes, it's not progressive, but my Toshiba displays better at that resolution, especially via HDMI/DVI. On over-the-air HD signals, 720p and 1080i are virtually indistinguishable on my set.
On the Blu-Ray disc I tried ("Talladega Nights"), it seemed like it was doing 1080i, but it could have been 720p. I'll double check tonight when I try it again.
Bottom line time:
1) Will the 360 HD-DVD upscale regular DVD to 1080i over component video? The 360 itself can do it using the VGA cable (loophole to CSS) but you cannot do 1080i or 1080p over component DIRECTLY because of CSS. Because the USB cable is a computer cable, getting through the CSS loophole, will the 360 HD-DVD upscale DVD content to 1080i or 720p? If so, I'm going to put my $200 of support behind HD-DVD.
2) The real problem is that Sony risks pissing off its target audience - the early adopters. Many of the people camped out are people who have had an HDTV for 4 or 5 years. They may have an HDTV that only shows 480i/p and 1080i. They are getting the ultimate shaft. Imagine shelling out $800 (remember the tax and add-on costs) only to find your shiny (though slightly scratched) PS3 churning out 480p.
3) As the owner of a CRT-based HDTV that has 480i/p, 720p and 1080i with HDMI, this doesn't affect me. If you have a TV with a native resolution of 720p, don't worry. Non issue. Just bad press.
4) There is still the issue of which 1080p does PS3 do? 1080p/24 (film) or 1080p/60 (video). Or both? Of course, most people who have this problem have a shitton of money so they can pay others to worry about it.
5) 1080i is better for film than 720p simply because of the higher resolution. Film is 24 fps, making the interlacing a non-issue. Fast action is the only thing affected noticeably by interlacing. And I haven't noticed any real problems with gaming at 1080i vs. 720p. BTW: Most of the 360 games are native 1080i, not 720p. The 720p is the bare minimum, but every developer has used the higher resolution since launch.
I expect to read about Kutaragi being strangled to death with an HDMI cable sometime next week.
The choice between 1080i and 720p is a preference, there is no clear "winner". 1080i is higher-res but 720p refreshes faster, but you can't generalize that progressive is superior regardless to whoever was sayign that.
Getting that out of the way: I am now screwed, I bought my CRT-HDTV 9 months ago, it's the last generation of Panasonic CRT's. If you consider 9 months "OLD" fine, I don't I went out of my way to get a model with an HDMI port (this was back when we were worried about HDCP) and thougth I was good too go for a possible PS3.
My tv supports only 480p and 1080i, 1080i is VASTLY superior to 720p on all LCD's i've seen. The colours/sharpness on my CRT are just unbelievable and now I just feel really let down, that gamers like me have been abandoned.
while 1080P is great, it is "OVER-HYPED", Most will not be able to tell the difference. Is all about marketing, 1080P sounds like the best thing since slice bread, well is not that big of a deal specially when watching movies.
FYI guys the older HDTV's that DON'T display 720p outnumber the ones that do by 3 to 1. (Maybe more by now?)
This is a really big mistake for Sony. They officially humped the bunk here.
An upscaler chip that almost every CE device in the world (except the PS3) already has in costs about US $10.
Ouch!
Also think of it like this. If you were a developer and made your game to only work in 720p and 480p, your target audience (and potential sales) just got a whole lot smaller.
And from a business perspective, Sony's tech support line just got Tsunami'd for the next 2 years.
Bigger Ouch.
Oh by the way, the developer who revealed all this info says no firmware update can fix this. There is no scaler chip.
The only thing they could do is to do it with software on one of the cell processors. Thats a tall order.
PS3 will do 1080i for 1080p games (such as RR7).
PS3 games that render in 720p will not be upscaled 1080i (unless its done by the TV)
In the US to be considered a "HDTV" the set MUST do 720p/1080i (these sets WILL NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS), however early "HD Monitor" TVs sold in the US cannot handle 720p. However, most of these HD monitors WILL scale 720p images to 1080i.
PEOPLE THAT WILL HAVE PROBLEMS ARE:
The problem is for people with older CRT HD monitors that cannot display 720P AND where the TV does not upscale to 1080i(most do).
I bought a CRT HDTV 2 or 3 years ago and it does 480i, 480P, 720P, and 1080i. It was really cheap, and isn't even widescreen. Really I've never heard of an HDTV that only does 1080i. Maybe like one of the first ones that ever came out. Personally interlaced signals really wig me out and I prefer 720P, so I guess this seems like a pretty minor problem. People don't really understand HDTV still and that includes the press. For example, everyone touts the fact that 360 can do 1080P, but no one ever mentions that it can only do it through component cables, or DVI. If you are looking at these problems from a non-biased point of view, it is really hard to find an HDTV that can't do 720P. On the other hand, if you walked into Best Buy and asked the clerk if some new TV could do 1080P through component cables he'd almost certainly tell you he didn't have the foggiest idea. Also if the movie studios ever decide that this HD content has to be DRMed, then HDMI is going to be completely necessary.
I feel like the press is playing up the PS3's problems. For example, 200 games out of 8000 old titles don't work and I'm seeing headlines like "PS3 won't play old games" and stuff like that. When the 360 launched there were a ton of games it couldn't pay, and I think there still are some, and I don't remember anyone making a peep. Sure it's off to a shaky start, but I don't think the uber-fanboys really care, and by the time the rest of us manage to get one, everything should be completely ironed out with firmware upgrades.
http://www.flashyshades.com
Hiphop - The 360 supports 1080p through DVI and component? Since when? I thought it only supported 1080p through VGA.
As far as TVs that don't support 720p, we're talking a number of CRTs that were sold only two or more years ago. The early adopters of HD who bought HD CRTs (that often look better than the plasmas and LCDs of today) are the ones who will suffer.
Actually, it is not a requirement in the USA to display 720p. Only in Europe. Most HDTVs sold within the past 4 years WILL NOT DO 720P. This may be hard to swallow, but 720P did not become standard in most HDTVs until mid to late 2004. And it is NOT just CRTs, this goes for most rear projection HDTVs as well. From a consumer standpoint, this is a disaster because 720p is not a commonly used resolution. Most devices like HDCable tuners will upscale the few 720p channels available, while most HD channels simply do 1080i from the getgo. You will be hard pressed to find much love for anything 720P in the HD world.
"Porsche 911: Due to content protection, HD movies with full 720p/1080i/1080p will be viewable through VGA only. This is to prevent HD movie piracy. You should get your facts straight"
HAHA....dude, you obviously don't know anything about the 360 (but you are upset that the PS3 is gimped). FACT - 1080i: Component cables work for movies and games. 1080P: Component cables work for games but VGA cable is required for movies. Go back to to "ps3istheroxorz.com".
PBS, CBS and NBC broadcast in 1080i as does Discovery HD-Theater and INHD. 1080i is more popular than 720p (ABC and FOX)
Porshe 911-The HD movies display FINE through component at 720p or 1080i on my TV, it is not through VGA only. DVD upconvert is the only thing the VGA can do that the component cables can not. So before you tell someone to get their facts straight, make sure yours are...
I used to have a 65" CRT HDTV. It would, like most sets in 2001 (and 2002, 2003, 2004) handle 1080i & 480p. The reason you could see 720p content was that the device (digital cable box, directv receiver) would scale the 720p to 1080i. A raw 720p signal to most of these types of rptv's would be garbage. Some later crts would have built in converters. and the new fixed panel sets all do all kinds of scaling.
This is an issue for a quite a few consumers. It is laziness on Sony's part. Every two-bit HD-decoder does 720p - 1080i conversion, so why not this box. It may be a firmware fix. Or maybe not. we'll see. I can't afford it either way.
You, sir, did not have a 65" CRT television. In case you're not sure, CRT stands for "cathode ray tube" meaning tube televisions as opposed to plasma or LCD. My 34" CRT HDTV weighs 200 lbs. For that reason, CRT HDTVs never went larger than 36." A 65" CRT HDTV would tip the scales at over 400 lbs.
hey hannibalchew
could it be that the ps2 is outselling the 360 because it's $129, not $399?
what a dolt. gee, you think the free cellphone sell more than the $400 cellphones? must mean those $400 cellphones blow.
argh. parallel arguments people. stop comparing items that don't relate.
Hey, hannibalwhatever-most people were cutting edge with 1080i up until two months ago. Why trade in a 1080i set if it has one thousand and eighty lines. They usually still do progressive at the 480p level and some do 720p--1080p has only recently become available. Sony should be going forward not backwards. But it doesn't surprise me since they try to force everyone to use what they make instead of giving consumers choices. When you pick up your check at Sony Corp for trashing anything non-Sony in blogs you should trade in your Sony branded kneepads for a better set of rabbit-ear antennas. "The truth shall set you free", jerk.
This IS an issue if Sony doesn't/can't patch it.
We aren't talking about not being able to display content recorded in 720p ala network TV, your cable box does the job of upconverting to 1080i with that.
Most 360 games are made for 720p. They still display on my TV that can't accept a 720p signal because the Dashboard has an option to set your TV to 1080i.
The PS3 does not have this option.
This SHOULDN'T be an issue.. Sony SHOULD be able to patch this.. but I'm confused as to why Sony hasn't made a statement that they are patching this.
And I have a SONY HDTV by the way.
So if I want get a 360's full potenial of the output I'll need a VGA cable that connects to a DVI adapter that connects to a HDMI adapter for that?
That's impossible. Even for a computer.
The signals won't convert. There is no way to do VGA-HDMI. Theoretically, one can go from VGA-to-DVI-a. Then, the theory goes, one can go to HDMI. Doesn't work. If anything, you want VGA-to-component, for which you'll need a transcoder which may or may not work and may blow out your TV. They cost around $100 and require their own wall wart.
Might as well plunk down the extra scratch for the HD-DVD add-on.
He probably means CRT rear projection.
720p is better for heavy motion stuff like sporting events and video games. The number of TV's that support 1080i and not 720p can't be too high.
This is a big deal and it is why I tipped engadget to post it. I have a RP CRT from last year and it does not support 720P natively. That means no HD gaming for me on the PS3 (unless they make all their games in 1080p and it can DOWNCONVERT- which doesn't seem likely). This is a BIG deal. If companies develop games in 720p (pretty standard now), then I won't get to play them in HD like I would on the 360. It is as simple as that.
If it is a hardware problem as some have posed, then customers like me are getting the shaft in next-gen gaming.
The better question at this point, is it a hardware problem or is it fixable through firmware.
Hmm... Hadn't planned on buying one, but I've got a great Sony 36" CRT HDTV that would've had this exact problem. Guess I'll stick with my 360. Sony f's up again.
Here is a great explanation of what you get from 1080p. http://blog.hometheatermag.com/geoffreymorrison/0807061080iv1080p/
Question: Does the DVD Drive that is standard on the 360 upscale DVD's to 720p/1080i?
i have a 46" sony rp crt that i bought 2 years ago. it does 1080i. the 360 looks great on my set. so sony is screwing me until they get an update? urgh. thank god i don't have to stand in line tonight in the freezing cold with people robbing each other.
Are we SURE that it will output 1080p games at 1080i?
I have a stupid question (im not to tech savy) the blue ray movies all say 1080 p resolution on the back of the cases. so if i have an older tv that only has 1080i what will the movie play in?