Nintendo Wii: the wee-little things

As much as we would have loved to devote the entire day to Wii-related goings-on, we also had some other important business to attend to; and besides, there are several blogs out there that are much better at covering gaming minutiae than ourselves. Still, amongst all the hustle and bustle of product announcements, press conferences, and rumor mongering, there were a few tidbits of info that seemed to fall by the wayside, so we thought it was only right to wrap those up into one tidy, bite-size post. Perhaps the biggest "non-news" of the day, so to speak, is that Wii has lost the DVD playback functionality that had been promised in earlier-speced versions of the console -- and the reasoning behind it kind of makes sense, as one less feature supposedly brought down the price of the console, and everyone already has a DVD player to begin with. On a more positive note, we also learned that at least Nintendo-produced discs -- and perhaps third party titles as well -- will be region-free, meaning that if you live in the US but have a hankering for one of those crazy, nonsensical Japanese cooking / weight loss / "thinking" games, all ya gotta do is import. Wanna learn more? Keep on reading...

Another topic we only glossed over was the use of so-called "channels" to partition the Wii's various functions; in no particular order they are: Disc (for playing -- you guessed it -- store-bought titles), Mii (for pimping out your avatar), Photo (for viewing and editing SD-based pics), Forecast (allows you to peep the weather anywhere in the world), News (self-explanatory), Wii shop (where they sell you swag like retro games, the Opera browser, and anything else they think you'll shell out for), Virtual Console (where you get your 8-bit-and-higher gaming on), Internet (duh), and finally, Message Board (a catch-all channel for posting, sending pics and text, and updating / patching games).

So, now that we've gotten most of the loose ends tied up, how's the public reacting to Nintendo's proposed bill of goods?

It's no secret that gamers and non-gamers alike have been looking forward to Wii for some time, so now that most of Nintendo's cards are on the table, what's been the reaction from the public so far? Well obviously the innovative console is getting some major buzz in the mainstream press, and from what we gather, people are pretty excited to strap on that Wiimote and get their game on. So the good news for the big N is that they've definitely captured the public's interest here, and at $250 -- much cheaper than either the Xbox 360 or PS3 -- the system has a good chance of meeting its stated goals of bringing new gamers into the fold as well as bringing back those folks who gave up on videogames once the controllers began to sport 3 directional pads and 50 buttons.

But is the Wii really such a good deal? As one commenter on Joystiq put it, when you factor in the cost of an extra controller ($40), extra nunchuck attachment ($20), a non-bundled game ($50), and the obligatory SD card ($20 to $50), you're looking at a package that costs over $400 -- and over $500 if you want to equip everyone in a four-person family with their own input devices.

Gamers have also been critiquing the cost of Virtual Console titles: are people really willing to spend $5-a-pop for a bunch of low-res games from the 80's (especially when these same games are available for "free" as ROMs at numerous sites online)? Finally, some folks aren't all that wowed at the "value-added" features like web browsing and photo manipulation -- we have computers for that, and they do a lot better job.

In the end, though, the decision of whether or not to pick up a Wii -- or any of the other next-gen consoles, for that matter -- is a highly personal one, and it's foolish to suggest that something which seems overpriced, underpowered, or gimmicky to some will strike others the same way. Our best advice, then, is to take your time, read some reviews, get all the facts down pat, and most importantly of all, don't listen to anything that the fanboys tell you.

Read- DVD playback
Read- Wii channels
Read- Region-free games
Read- US launch
Read- Japanese launch
Read- Launch critiques
Read- Console details
Read- Packaging

[Chris @ Sep 14th 2006 8:33PM]

One thing's for sure. I'll be picking myself up one on day 1!

[Mythgarr @ Sep 14th 2006 8:37PM]

But is the Wii really such a good deal? As one commenter on Joystiq put it, when you factor in the cost of an extra controller ($40), extra nunchuck attachment ($20), a non-bundled game ($50), and the obligatory SD card ($20 to $50), you're looking at a package that costs over $400

...Yeah? And if you factor in the cost of an extra 360 controller ($50), memory card ($40), a non-bundled game ($60) and the obligatory hard drive (whether you buy it in the pro or as an add-on, $100), you're looking at over $550 system. I don't really see any surprises in that comment, for some reason...

[Chris @ Sep 14th 2006 8:40PM]

So you buy a 360 with a HDD - $600 plus wireless controllers for everyone in your family (wireless because the Wii already is) - $150 plus the latest game - $60.

$810.

I won't even do the math on the PS3.

[Chris @ Sep 14th 2006 8:43PM]

Sorry, I added an extra $100 on the system price...

360 with options above - 710

[Awesom-o @ Sep 14th 2006 8:44PM]

I don't care if this thing sucks.

I'm gonna be buying as many as I can to sell on ebay. :)

[Ian @ Sep 14th 2006 8:46PM]

@Mythgarr

Well you buy a 360 and you don't really need a memory card since you have the HDD. Plus your getting considerabily (sp?) more power packed in and the ability to play games in HD. Thats the difference between selling a system at a loss and selling it profitably at launch. Wii technology is pretty much last gen meaning your basically buying a gamecube again with a 2.5 faster CPU and a new controller. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the Wii and all but at a 50 dollar difference I don't know if people are going to justify it.

[Mr. Tips @ Sep 14th 2006 8:47PM]

So wait...extra accessories and extra games are going to cost...EXTRA??? Thank God someone warned all of us ahead of time.

[h4x0r @ Sep 14th 2006 8:49PM]

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7281/untitledtr6.jpg

[Alden A @ Sep 14th 2006 8:55PM]

I think the under-priced hype kind of swept everyone off their feet. Personally I was expecting $200 for the system including only one Controller, lacking the nunchuck, and the Wii Sports on the internal memory.

Where is all the news for the classic remotes? How much are those?

What about VoIP based communications?

As a Senior getting ready to go to College, this seems to be THE BEST deal for the late teens/early 20's group. I know in college I won't have ANY funds whatsoever but the cheap SNES/64/GameCube games that come out will be the perfect deal for myself and my fellow students instead of a heavy $600 for a SYSTEM alone and so on.

[Smoke_Dawg_187 @ Sep 14th 2006 8:57PM]

I don't see why the industry is hyping this machine. I guess because they're the underdogs in the console war, people feel sorry for them.

[Abe @ Sep 14th 2006 9:15PM]

At the moment I'm looking at a choice between a ps3 and a Wii (since I already have an Xbox360) and the way I see it, I can get the wii and two or three launch titles and still pay less than I would for the PS3. Another very useful thing my Xbox360 has taught me is that pretty graphics do not a good game make.

[Kyle @ Sep 14th 2006 9:18PM]

Let's also pay no attention to the fact that you can use GC controllers for more... conventional games.

[Xiro @ Sep 14th 2006 9:32PM]

Alden...
As a senior going into college you better be too poor even buy a Wii cause you should be out drinking yourself insane and hopping on all the freshmen honeys. Don't sell yourself short man. You seen Little Miss Sunshine? Listen to Grandpa.

[Andrew @ Sep 14th 2006 9:37PM]

I think we should look at the gameplay itself more than anything else, since that's the purpose of consoles. And I think that Nintendo is King of Gameplay! I would buy a Wii over the 360 even if the 360 cost $100 less than it currently does. And I'd buy it over the PS3 if the PS3 costed, oh... say, $100? lol. So far with all the [sarcasm]"excellent"[/sarcasm] news from Sony and the fact that their Dev-Kit apparently isn't very easy to use at all I think we can expect a lot from the PS3... like a really expensive Blu-Ray player with a couple of sports games that have a shelf life of like ten minutes.

[seamus bartlett @ Sep 14th 2006 9:54PM]

What some of you are forgetting, is that the Wii is compatible with Gamecube controllers. This is a big deal---you can have a WiiMote and Nunchuks, but if you want to play multiplayer games, a lot of people already have Gamecube controllers. If you just want some cheap controllers, you can buy Gamecube ones---if you want the WiiMote and chuks, you can also get it.

Also, you don't NEED an SD card for it. Even if you do---many, MANY people have them. But, you don't need it.

And for the retro games---if you don't want to pay that much, you don't have to. The fact is, it's an amazing added extra feature that other developers haven't added. Even if/when they do add it---Nintendo has such a huge draw for retro gamers and such a huge collection of retro games that it will still be a much better offer. I mean, some games aren't in the graphics---if I can play Super Mario RPG again for 8 bucks, it'll be worth it.

But I was secretly hoping that the Wii was going to have a place in its heart for downloading Genesis/Saturn/Dreamcast games...oh well, I can still hold out hope for Nights Into Dreams and Fighting Vipers on a next-gen console.

[h4x0r @ Sep 14th 2006 9:54PM]

Andrew, PS3 is next generation, there is no console or even update of console (xbox360 1.5) that will come close to the ps3 for a long time, xbox360 is built on this generation hardware, micrsoft was in a hurry to get it out the door and the console didnt come out as good as everyone had hoped, I own a xbox 360 but only because of halo 3, and my favorite game of all time is the metal gear solid series so I will get a ps3 for mgs4, the price is whats keeping me in my seat, most likly i will get it when there is a price drop but if i had 600 dollars i would deffiniatly go buy a ps3 because it is totally worth it if you compared price to power and graphics ratio to the xbox 360, the ps3 would stomp on it.

[kolthim @ Sep 14th 2006 9:54PM]

I am DEFINATELY getting the Wii, but I am going to ask for it as a chritmas present and have someone film me opening so that I can post myself going crazy over the Wii ten years from now and sell the thing for a thousand dollars. Oh and no one will even be able to think about doing the same thing because I'm going to patent it and sue everyone who watches that crazy n64 kid.

[Robotron @ Sep 14th 2006 10:04PM]

Don't forget the Wii has WiFi built in (something that MS forgot....ok they didn't forget it because "surprise, we have an adapter for $120").

[Dj Moxy @ Sep 14th 2006 10:12PM]

Seamus-

There will be Genesis games on the Virtual Console. Also Turbo Graphics 16 (PC Engine) games. Golden Axe looks to be one of the juicier of that lineup.

I'm going to wait a while, but basically I have to buy a Wii for the next Smash Brothers game. Everyone is saying that the Wii is just a slightly upgraded GameCube... but I would pay $250 for a GameCube sequel to Smash with online play.

Crazy? Maybe- but I think everyone is going to realize how genius-awesome-super-sweet-leet-omg-ftw SmashBrosBrawl is going to be once we get to see people playing it online.

Of course, I'm waiting and not buying right away because if there are latency issues the whole experience will be crippled and worthless. Don't mess it up, Nintendo!

[Judous @ Sep 14th 2006 10:15PM]

Nintendo has never stated that this is a machine was built to give great graphics, it's not built for that. I think they made a good move by not including the DVD because everyone has it.

As for the console wars, each system has it's strength's and weaknesses. The PS3 is going to be the graphics powerhouse of the bunch, from what screens we have seen already it looks to be amazing. But honestly the Xbox isn't to far behind, or not far enough to justify a 200$ price difference. The 360's obvious strength lies in the online cabability of the system. Even if you aren't impressed with it's visuals you have to admit that Xbox live is something that console's needed to have friends playing together, it really is a great feature. But quite honstely the computer is still my system of choice for playing online, more games, less lag, and graphics better than PS3. The WII is the system that I'm rooting for, simply because they are doing something completely different with games. The motion sensing style of play looks to be an absolute blast, swinging the controler to swing the sword in Zelda? AWESOME! It may not be able to produce the best graphics around, but honestly, as long as they are clean and pixelated, and the game iteself is great people are gonna buy it and love it.

I think this will be the generation that Nintendo is back on the top of the charts. It's been a long time for them lol

[Aaron @ Sep 14th 2006 10:49PM]

It blows my mind how some of you have little to no grasp on the world of gaming.

First off, graphics: Anyone play Resident Evil 4? No? Until you do, stop talking about how it's "only" slightly better than the GameCube.

Has the $250 price point been confirmed? $200 makes more sense to me.

Another thing to keep in mind: this thing isn't out yet, and you haven't played the games. So why are you so very busy bashing them, or, like "Laffy Taffy" up there, talking about the "endless remakes"? Could it be possible that Nintendo learned something from the GameCube? Just maybe?

The Wii has me very excited, and I can't wait to get my hands on one. It'll be much more sucessful than the Xbox fanboys think.

[DJ @ Sep 14th 2006 11:09PM]

"Has the $250 price point been confirmed? $200 makes more sense to me."

Yes, it was, about TWELVE HOURS AGO. But, there's some debate about it. Since it comes with Wii Sports and all Nintendo label games are $49.95 for now, does that mean the console is really only $200? Personally, it doesn't matter, GameCrazy has my $50 deposit and I pick up the console for my son for Christmas on November 19th.

[Pay to Play @ Sep 14th 2006 11:30PM]

Play just one game
PS3 Core = 500 + 60(1 game) = $560
Xbox 360 Core = 300 + 60(1 game) = $360
Wii = $250

Wireless internet and play
PS3 Premium + 1 game = $660
Xbox 360 Core + 1 game + Wireless adapter = $460
Wii = $250

Let's get the top of the line for each system and play
PS3 Premium + 1 game = $660
Xbox 360 Premium + 1 game + Wireless adapter + HD-DVD($100-200) = $660-760
Wii + Opera browser($10-20) = $260-270


*all prices exclude taxes
**Prices of Opera Browser and HD-DVD add-on are estimates
***Each system comes with 1 controller and necessary items to hook up to a TV
****The Winner of Pay to Play = Wii regardless of the price of estimated items
*****Thank you ... and goodnight

[AzaMcWazza @ Sep 14th 2006 11:32PM]

Wow, I'm amazed that people are complaining about paying $5 for a retro game. Maybe if they want to download every game out there like some MAME fanatic this will limit them, but if you only purchase the ones you like, $5 is nothing. I mean $5 or even $10 for Golden Axe? Pittance! If it's a good game you enjoy, a few bucks is worth it.

The argument about their PC doing the web so why bother is one that I understand but for a lot of people (Me included) it won't matter. My PC sits in my office. My Wii will sit in my lounge. Oftem I'm sitting IN MY LOUNGE when I decide to go see a film. Gotta go into my office to check out the films and book, maybe boot my computer etc - pain in the arse. Here I'll be able to just pick up my Wiimote, and do it there. I really relish that. It will help bring the internet into the family more I believe.

And as mentioned, any console kitted out with 4 controllers and addons is gonna cost a lot.

[AcN684 @ Sep 14th 2006 11:39PM]

Laffy Taffy, you're very contradictory in your argument...perhaps that is what you would consider - "not using your common sense"? First most, the Wii estimated at 250 release, 60 for a spare controller and 50 for a game, plus 50 for memory stick is around 410 bucks pretax, you consider that the 360 is about 400, 50 for a spare controller, and then 60 for a recent game, that will set you back 510 dollars, 100 dollar difference, hence, comparable to the 250 dollar Wii and the 400 dollar 360.

Yes Wii does rely on innovative thinking, but if marketing has ever told the story of anything, and it usually does, innovation is key to creating a niche market and becoming a dominant player in that field. You justify that innovative thinking doesn't equate good games, I agree, but you can't justify that having many features on a console and having great graphics make a great game either. Wii will make really good games, and the 360 would also. To each their own, don't be biased to think that the Wii will have 0 good games, cause if you had any sort of experience in gaming as you so foreclaim, all consoles will have at least a handful, if not more, AAA quality games. Yes, the gamecube lacked a ton of quality games, and so did the xbox and the ps2. But to each, gamecubes super smash brothers, or metroid prime, xbox's halo series, ps2's final fantasy line, all constitute that all consoles will have good games on them.

"In the world of gaming, extreme quantities break extreme qualities." This is by far the worst logic i've ever heard. The 360 does not make better games than the Wii just because of the dvd playback, progressive output, hard drive, etc. What makes a good game is the quality of the developers that choose to develop for the system. Nintendo, being a primarey developer for the Wii, will produce good games because of their passion for it. The same for the 360, passionate developers will come out with great games - hence call of duty 2. Granted, some developers might want to develop for one console more than the others because they feel that this system has more users, better features, etc - that doesn't mean that all the games that come out are good. This is evident in that, the 360 has some pretty crappy games out there, some horrible games also. The Wii will also have some bad games and horrible ones. This alone proves that - "the system makes the games great" is absolutely false, but rather, you see companies like Bungie, Nintendo, SqureEnix make amazing games all the time, not cause of the console, cause of the company.

Your argument against the "lack of M rated games" is plenty childish. You're going to argue that M rated games also make good games? Yes, M rated games have more mature themes, which usually attract the older audience, but that doesn't mean games that are not rated M are bad, nor are they targeted for consumers such as you to purchase. BTW, don't take "game of the year" labels so seriously, in the real world, there exists hundreds of "official sources" which give out hundreds of "game of the year" awards. These are just gimmicks to make people feel like their game they're buying is the highest quality. BTW, aren't we all sick of shooters already? Of course not, but it is a repeated theme, don't bash against the mario * luigi theme just because its "overplayed." Realistically, shooters are generally more overplayed...but that doesn't mean they're bad games.

So, if you think that we're too "dumb" to comprehend your entry, you might want to consider how you even argued for your position. I am not a fanboy of nintendo, although i do have much respect for the company and will buy the Wii. I also have the 360, and will be purchasing the ps3. Also, to note: the graphics on the 360 are not "next-gen" and the 360 is not technically considered "next-gen." I'd avoid using your "Wii doesn't meet the standards" argument. 360 is technically considered 1.5 gen - it surpasses the ps2 and xbox, but is no where in terms of raw power that the ps3 will have.

Sorry for the long arguement guys, I just hate reading stupid biased entries where people think that this system is the best just because they think it is. I also hate it when people argue "theres not enough M rated games," which in itself is a pretty adolescent and childish thing to think.

[SBU @ Sep 14th 2006 11:43PM]

I am a big Nintendo fan, I have owned every one of their consoles (including the Virtual Boy) since the NES.

I am looking forward to the Wii, but at $250, I don't know if I will be getting it right away. A 199.99 price point seemed to make more sense, especially considering the cost of the system (recent reports said its manufacturing costs had gone down). Nintendo was taking a different route than the other companies, but selling at $50 less than a Basic 360 really does not seem like a great idea. When Mom and Dad go to get a gift for Christmas for their teenage son, they will likely pay the 50 extra for a 360 (and pass over the PS3) because its the "cool" thing. I don't know, I guess we have to see how the games are (even though they all seem gimmicky right now IMO.)

[Gilbert @ Sep 14th 2006 11:43PM]

I don't understand why everyone so far has glossed over where the hell all these "extras" are going to be stored.

Since the system is only flash-based and possesses no other significant internal storage, where are the inevitable 100+ games I'm going to by going to live? On an SD card? Does that mean they're portable? Does that mean smart people unlike myself can copy them, crack whatever retarded DRM is more than likely present and then make them playable channels on an infinite # f machines? Are people going to sell preloaded "hot" SD cards with 500 cracked VC games for $50 under the proverbial trench coat of the internet?

Granted, these 8 and 16-bit games don't require much in the way of disk space, so whatever internal, if any, memory might be enough, but this poses at least one more significant question: what if I order too many?

Also, I agree the system does indeed cost about $50 too much for the value proposition added. Also, last I checked, 25,000 Yen is about $212.00. The system in the US is $250. The difference? Well, the difference is that that "free" bundled game now costs $38. In other words, I need to spend $38 to help teach the rest of dumbass mainstream America--the ones Nintendo is trying to prod into their little marketing cattlefield--how to do something their already overweight asses know how to do: point a remote. My opinion? Charge me $212.99 for the "core" system, Nintendo sans Wii Sports and "bundle" the game to the consumer at the point of sale IF they want it. You'll still make your supply goals by producing one box and one console. Don't make me pay for something I don't want, especially when it glaringly highlights the true cost of the console and especially when most items are usually more expensive in Japan in the first place (which only makes it seem like even less of a value proposition).

Don't tell me at E3 "Less than $250" and than bring it out at, well, $250. It almost feels like a lie and a slap in the face. Doesn't have DVD playback? Sure, no big deal whatsoever--we've all got 'em. Still, it would have made me feel more pleased and willing to make Nintendo the center of my livingroom as opposed to having to have yet another place for my pictures to live just so I can fuck around with them with my wii-mote (I really, really hate when people "wii-ify" words).

It's like if any of the Big Three wanted to "win" this ridiculous console war, all they have to do is NOT alienate their customer. One way or another, they always do. This time, admittedly, Nintendo came close...but not close enough.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 12:08AM]

I've just had a very, very sad epiphany, albeit an obvois one.

It's crazy to think that the Wii can and should essentially live within either an Xbox 360 or a PS3.

Why? How? Well, what, pray tell, is Nintendo offering us here that's going to broaden an enlighten our lives?

Two things: a nifty controller and a nifty interface.

That said, does the Wii really need to exist? Think about it. Hardware-wise, with the exception of commonplace items a la wireless cards, the Wii can do NONE of what the 360 and PS3 can do, whereas they can do ALL of what it can do--just without the nifty remote and interface.

(And please, spare me the "well, my computer can do...blah, blah, blah so why do consoles exist...blah, blah, blah" because you know what, the markets have clearly proben a dedicated console makes for a better experience.)

If I'm Nintendo, I'm worried. I'm aware the Wii is nothing more than a shiny box with a gimmick. I'm aware that, shit, if I really wanted to, I could simply license the concept to (nifty control, cute interface, complete with whippy-spin weather globe) say, Samsung and have my Wii-nology (I hate myself) embedded into their sexy little LCDs or plasmas. Heck, the black "sensor bar" strip built right into the bottom portion of the TV might make it even sexier yet!

Or, I could pull a Sega and drop ship, spending the rest of my future hocking my soft-wares en masse.

Why is the DS successful? Because it gives you an experience you couldn't get ANYWHERE else--not even a poor imitation.

But as Sony so shamefully demonstrated, what they have to offer here is, well, nothing new, aside from accessibility.

But now that we know the cost of a Wii let's do the real math on the PS3 everyone thinks is SO over-priced:

The only PS3 they should produce: $600
The cost of a Blue-Ray player: ($1000)
The cost of a Wii, which a PS3 could easily be if done right: ($250)

Total extra value in a PS3: $650

And yes, thank you for telling me, but I'm already aware of the funny math. My econ degree doesn't fail me, I assure you. I'm simply highlighting a point here.

Take it or leave it.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 12:15AM]

And yes, "obvios" is probably where you should spell "obvious" correctly.

I guess that degree really did fail me after all.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 12:19AM]

BTW, $5 for SMB 3? Didn't we all spend like $30 on it for GBA? What the hell are we complaining about here?

We could all DL songs online for free as well, but iTunes sure sells 'em legally like hotcakes.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 12:32AM]

My $119 running shoe comes with 512MB of flash for stinky saves.

BTW, didn't we just unbox an 8GB Nano for $250? Now let's talk VALUE!!

[Fonzo @ Sep 15th 2006 12:40AM]

Joystiq's price comparison on every level is simply dumb. Why would you factor in the cost of 3 extra controllers, memory cards, and extra games in determining the cost of the system? Those are all extras and highly unlikely purchases. I imagine most folks will buy the console ($250) and an extra controller ($40). After tax, that still brings you to less than the 360 core system, which comes with no games and one controller. I would say that is an incredibly good deal.

Also, doesn't Wii Sports include four sport games? So really you have four games right out of the box. That sounds like a good deal to me.

[Cry Havoc @ Sep 15th 2006 12:43AM]

Gilbert: Do you play tabletop RPGs? Because the only people I know that would equate pushing a button (or rolling a dice) to actually SWINGING A SWORD are D&D or WoW fans (no offense to either party intended).

Yeah, I'm oversimplifying, but seriously, if you can't observe the difference there in terms of the potential immersion factor as well as the number of innovations it could bring to the table in 1-3 years, you're totally clueless. The Ps3 controller is nothing compared to the Wiis. No rumble, no speaker, motion sensing in the crudest sense of the word. Don't even try to compare the two, because as soon as you do you lose all credibility as to current knowledge of the "next-gen" systems, or whatever you'd prefer to call them.

Sorry for the partial flame, but statements such as yours are as ludicrous as they are frustrating.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 1:16AM]

Cry (fairly accurate, I must say):

You're missing the point. Not only did I illustrate the Sony's attempt was poor at best, but I also clarified that without even releasing the system, the Nintendo Wii has become obsolete, even with its "innovation." And NO, I'm not talking about hardware power. I happen to agree on their point about gameplay. In fact, I freakin' love Nintendo for that.

That said, do you really think it would that hard to add/reverse-engineer a control with such capabilities to the 360 or PS3? (Yeah, yeah, yeah, no rumble...patent...blah, blah...they're all getting sued.)

This isn't about credibility (though I do appreciate the partial apology for the partial flame), it's about the fact that in reality, Nintendo hasn't innovated as much as it has simply gambled.

There's a balance there. Yes, the DS was a gamble as well, but it was far outweighed by the innovation and gameplay. That's what Nintendo has in droves--they're excellent at it--especially with regard to the gameplay part. (Think about all the top-selling DS games, the top-selling GC games, the top-selling GBA, SNES, N64, NES games--all first-part titles.)

To boot, I'm thrilled that Nintendo has taken this chance. I mean, shit, it's not my company taking the gamble--I won't loose anything by their bringing a new product to market. I can't freakin' wait!

I'm worried, however, there isn't nearly enough value propostion present to make it last or to really change the way we look at games as a whole, NOT as just a WoW fan (even though according to the NY Times, the entire world is playing that game like there's no tomorrow). Thus, I'm worried this could spell the end for Nintendo home-based hardware as we know it. A handheld company? A licenced concept? Perhaps, ladies and gents, perhaps.

You need to think beyond you and me, Havoc. We're going to love the system because we love games. Nintendo, however, cannot, I repeat, CANNOT survive in the home console market on just you and me. Just ask them. Just ask them why they're taking this system to the "masses," to grandpa, whose arthritis is going to kill him while doing all that swinging you described above.

A dual-screen touch-sensitive handheld had NEVER been done before, it was backed by stellar software and it won. Motion sensitive controls have been tried and tried and have failed and failed. Can Nintendo pull an Apple and show everyone else how it's done, making them a leader?

Answer: with what is essentially a gimmick (a supposedly very well executed, posh one at that) on the line, the presentation, value, and an absolutely PERFECT seamless experience are key. I went to E3 and didn't get a chance to pick up a Wii control and I still haven't. However, I am terrified of blowing $250 on something that I could very well hate right off the bat, despite all the Nin-friendly feedback. Whereas, you know what, extreme expense and all, I'm able to go to the store, and pick up something I know I'm familiar with and I know I'm going to enjoy (sans precious rumble, of course) right out of the (giant) box in the PS3. What does that mean? That means I WILL NOT buy a Wii without trying it first. Because if I'm not INSTANTLY impressed and comfortable with the experience, it's not worth it to me--at all. I'd rather buy more stellar titles for my DS. Otherwise, I'll simply go with what I know and what I've trusted since 1995: Sony.

Of how much value is that to the consumer, Mr. Havoc?

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 1:27AM]

And to answer your question, no I don't play tabletop RPGs. In fact, I should clarify (oh boy, am I going to hear it for this one) that I can't stand WoW, I can't stand PC Gaming and I can't stand first-person shooters.

I am very, very much a purist in the sense that I truly adore a good platformer (still love SMB3, whose 90 boards I just played through two weeks ago for no reason), I adore 2-D fighting games (I will Alpha 3 you like there's no tomorrow), I adore excellent RPGs (ie-FFVII, like everyone else), I really like excellent driving games (GT4), I really like good puzzle games (Puzzle Fighter, Lumines, Dr. Mario, Brain Training), and I really like 3rd-person action games (MGS).

Does that help? It probably feels better now that you've put me in some sort of category akin to separating your skittles by color. It makes it much easier to criticize based on the stereotypes of said category, no?

Eh, whatever helps.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 1:30AM]

I know "the" should be "that," among other things.

Please don't correct my typos. I see them. It's late. Give me a break.

Hehe.

[Coolwave @ Sep 15th 2006 1:40AM]

Okay, get ready for a fanboy response like you've never heard. I'll admit that this is a little out there, but who's to say it's not possible... and, honestly, I hope my dreams do come true. Haha...

The REAL REASON (yea, right!) there is no DVD playback on the Nintendo Wii is the same reason there is no DVD drive on the iTV device Apple just announced. Who needs it? Just stream video downloads from your home PC! There will be an option to download an Amazon.com Unbox channel (for free!) that will allow users to view their Amazon Unbox video downloads stored on their PC right on their TV. Why do you think Amazon is advertising the Wii on their front page right now!? It has to be true! ;) Good luck with your great movie store now Mr. Jobs...

What if this is true? It would explain the lack of storage on the Wii... Content stored on your PC that is easily accessible over your home network?

I'm even an Apple fanboy, but I sure do love competition and I would love to see the same functionality of the iTV available for less money. Either way I'll buy a Wii just for the games. I guess I'm still hoping that Nintendo is keeping a big secret to make up for the Wii being exactly as stated, "Less than $250." And the fact that it's a better deal to buy another Wii than an extra controller.

Peace.

[resource @ Sep 15th 2006 1:57AM]

Cmon.

No matter what the system you have to buy a controller, a non-bundled game, a online subscription, a headset, etc.

Anyone who says a cheaper system isn't better owns Sony stock.

Id rather start at 250 and build rather than 600.

[Mark @ Sep 15th 2006 2:36AM]

But is the Wii really such a good deal? As one commenter on Joystiq put it, when you factor in the cost of an extra controller ($40), extra nunchuck attachment ($20), a non-bundled game ($50), and the obligatory SD card ($20 to $50), you're looking at a package that costs over $400

Since when is an SD card required? It has 512mb of internal flash memory...

[Ross @ Sep 15th 2006 2:49AM]

As a college student, the Wii will be the only next gen console I buy. It's the only one I can afford. I don't care about HD or if it can play dvds or not. I never used my ps2 to play dvds, ever, and I won't use the wii. I don't care too much about graphics, obviously, i'd rather have fun unique games.

I will probably buy some N64 games. They are a pain to play on the computer. Plus, they are cheap.

Sure, i'd love to have a 360 or a ps3, but they can't beat 250 with a free game.

And I don't understand all the negativity about the lack of a 2nd controller. No systems come out with 2 controllers.

I probably won't even buy a game right away, since it convienently comes with one. Anyone who likes to game but is economical about it will get the wii.

I can't imagine spending 600 dollars on just a console. Insane.

[joram Oudenaarde @ Sep 15th 2006 2:57AM]

I think people are forgetting something about that ps3 though...

Yes, it's ±100,- more expensive then the 360. Because that Blu-Ray player is expensive as hell. But look at it in the long run... The PS3 has a real good deal here. They have a really good device (Blu-Ray) which will drop in price massively. In one year you'll be able to get the Blu-Ray player for 30% of the current price. Put that pricedrop on top of the pricedrop every gameconsole will get in the coming year, and it will easily shave another 100,- off the PS3. It wouldn't suprise me if the PS3 will be able to become a bit cheaper then the 360 in about 1 year.

But the Wii... it's a lót cheaper then either the 360 or PS3. Let's say 300.- including a memorycard and Nun-chuck. And 350,- if you buy a nice game along with it as well. That's 350, playable right out of the box, with a very innovative way of playing games. Yes, it lacks the power that the other consoles have, but they said they were going for gameplay, and not directly for übergraphics. Personally I think éveryone lost sight of good gameplay the last few years. How many times have you read articles about games that said something like: great graphics, fantastic sound... but with 4 hours of gameplay and a crappy story this game is worth 60/100?

350,- for instant fun, or a minimum of 400, exclúding game or memorycard, along with 10,- for the online fee (360), or a non-vibrating controller of the PS3 which is 400+ dollar. I'd pick the Wii anytime. Even if the Wii was crappy, and only had Mario on it, i'd still buy it over the other 2. Just because this company deserves to survive... imho ;)

[Cry Havoc @ Sep 15th 2006 3:20AM]

Gilbert: Wow, lots of stuff to address. Here we go...

First of all, stating that the Wii is obselete is not only your opinion, it's a fairly muddled one at that. Obselete as to what, exactly? If you're speaking of graphical capability, well, so what? The Ps2 has been "obselete" since the 360 came out, yet have the good games stopped flowing? Not yet, with God of War 2 and FFXII on the horizon.

Furthermore, do you believe the 360 is the king of the graphical hill right now? Because it's not. In fact, you could consider the 360 very close to obselete in graphical performance. There are gaming rigs now with quad core GPUs that can perform at extremely high resolutions. To think that the Ps3 will be more powerful than any gaming computer for more than a month (at best) is folly. At that point, the Ps3s graphics are obselete by comparison. And if you make the argument that the Ps3 is much cheaper than a quality PC, you can no longer call the Wii out for being cheaper but less advanced. It's precisely what the Ps3 will be in a few months. By this time next year, single GPUs will be more than sufficient to keep up with Sony's monster of a console.

In response to the capability of the Ps3 to produce a controller identical to the Wiis -- It won't work. For the same reason that every other such attempt in gaming history has failed to work: They are peripherals made as an add on to the system. Who would spend more money on a feature that will only be used in a few games?

And that is precisely the reason why the Wii WILL succeed. Because this isn't a hokey third-party attachment designed to work with two or three games.

The controller is CENTRAL to the system and included at launch. You want a controller for the Wii? You're either buying THE motion sensing, rumbling, speakered goodness, or you're buying the old school controller. EVERY game, if it really wants to be credited for taking advantage of the Wii's capabilities, will have to sport the motion sensing function in some form or fashion. If Sony attempts to do the same, two things will happen: A) very few games will be developed for it, and B) Sony will be mocked to no end for such "innovation".

Speaking of which, how can you flame Nintendo for their lack of such? How can you say that incorporating a completely new element to gameplay -- moving around in 3d space to translate to "real" movement on the screen, is not innovative? Because.... using multiple cores to produce little else than better graphics is incredibly creative? Is this what Sony (and Microsoft) want for "the future of gaming"? If so, I'll pass. The games that have been the most fun to me over the past year are DDR and Guitar Hero. NOT Call of Duty 2 or the latest racing game with fancy visuals. That's just me, but I've never seen so many people crowd around a game as they have with the former two titles. They're real attention getters, and TONS of people are willing to "give it one try". That may be all it takes. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see my Grandpa (provided he was still alive) ever being attracted to Halo 3. I do think my mother would really enjoy giving a few of the Wii games a shot though, as she's already stated a couple of times that if/when I buy a Wii, she wants to try it.

Dual/touch screen's success ties into the fact that they were included with the system. If the DS would have been released with one screen and a second display as an attachment you had to buy that only 10% of games used, would the system have sold a tenth of the units? It's doubtful.

Your preference of games further confuses me. You're stating that you enjoy 2-D fighting, platformers, puzzles, and RPGs. This is the same person who just posted that the Wii is obselete? Did your puzzle and platform games just jump into the 4th dimension that are somehow beyond the Wii's graphical capabilities? Red Steel has the potential to be a fantastic 3rd person game, and Excitetruck may be a wonderful racer, even if it's not a "sim" like GT4 (which lacks any AI at all), it shows promise for future racing games on the console.

I apologize for being overly critical. I will not apologize for stereotyping you though. Any gamer that (essentially) speaks of graphical power as the only true innovation, especially one who claims to be a "purist", has some serious thinking to do.

[S.A. @ Sep 15th 2006 4:03AM]

@ Awesome-O. I dont think there is going to be enough of a shortage of these to cause a high price point on eBay. They said they were going to have like 4 million for launch? I doubt they will sell out. The PS3 on the other hand, im definitely campin out to get that. Thatll be an easy $300-$500.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 7:34AM]

Cry:

While I'm liking you more and more I think you missed my point yet again. For one, I clearly stated wasn't talking about hardware power in terms of obsolescence. I was talking about the concept and the very, very thin line that Nintendo is walking. This is not even remotely (no pun) about graphics for me. Case in point: to buy my DS Lite, I traded in the PSP I bought on March 24, 2005, day 1. Because there was a gimmick involved--one that was central to the system and released on day 1--I had to be certain they would back it up with gameplay, and for the most part, they did, though titles have been dry for a while.

As for the 360, my laptop is more powerful than it. I'm aware PC's are way more advanced as their architecture suits them as such. Just a single top-end graphics card will cost more than a 360. Again, it's not about graphics.

My sentiment should be very clear. Gameplay is essential. I thought that was made even more clear when I listed my game prefs. I don't like GT4 because it's pretty. I like GT4 because I'm totally immersed in the racing/car experience. And you know what? I use an extremely well-executed $150 add-on controller to play it (the Logitech, obviously) to help further that notion.

My point here, is that Nintendo really, really faces an uphill battle (well, not in Japan where the culture caters to this sort of gameplay). Trust me, trust me, trust me when I tell you I want that thing to succeed. My game choices shouldn't confuse you--I put them there for you to know that I would be in heaven if this thing worked. But admit that Nintendo faces a much more uphill battle than Sony or MSFT in this case given their gimmick. Again, I'm not going to buy one until I can try it and and until there are titles PROVEN, just like the DS. It has to be perfect and elegant.

But you know what? I do want a high-def DVD solution for my home (I'm betting you do, too) that takes advantage of HDMI and doesn't cost $1000 (even though I'm starting to think those prices are kept artificially high [Think about it, Sony witholds BR diodes, restricting supply to BR manufacs, keeping prices higher as demand rises] just to help add more value to the PS3), so I'm going to buy a PS3 anyway.

Lastly, you contradict yourself when you say the DS's success was due to the fact that the innovation was packaged with the system. Again, as you've stated, it's about the gameplay. If Nintendo built a different handheld system with great games (how much did the top-selling NSMB involve the touch screen, aside from me using my thumb to get flowers?), they still would have sold as many. (And yes, I'm aware Brain Age has sold as many and relies heavily on the stylus.)

We're very much on the same page. Reread my posts and you'll begin to understand my sentiment more.

In the meantime, let's agree to, well, agree.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 7:48AM]

Sorry, but that last sentence kills me. Where did I state "graphical power" was "true innovation"?

That said, it's fairly easy to buy into the whole idea that a more powerful system is less creative. But isn't coming closer to reality and immersion?

Think: do you get your interpretion of what't real more from visual cues or kinnesthetic cues (I'm NOT talking about tactile cues, I'm talking about motion of the body)?

I contend they come more from visual cues. Were I paralyzed and immobile, I would still perceive the world as real through my eyes. It wouldn't be the movement that gave me that sense.

A true sense of immersion doesn't come from swinging something around. It might for a second because we've all be taught through effective marketing that it does. We need feedback. Touch, as the DS worked. The Logitec Force Feedback Pro works for that reason, too. Swinging around a light controller...I'm not sure. I'm not sure that if I have no tacticle frame of reference (even weight would help in this case) I'm really going to feel anymore like I swung that sword anymore than if I pushed that button.

But I'm sure willing to give it a try.

[digitalzombie @ Sep 15th 2006 8:14AM]

Kewl, I'll wait for a bit before buying it now. I was hoping for $200 then again it comes with a game. I'm kind of sad at the fact that smash bro is not a launch title.

I don't know what you guys all complaining about. The systems haven't come out yet and you guys are complaining about how it going to suck, only time will tell.

My reason for wii:
Nintendo games (zelda, mario, smash bro, etc..)
Price (poor college student)
Innovation

For the Innovation part nintendo is selling the console not as a power system but as a innovative system. I don't get why you guys are still arguing about cpu and etc..when Nintendo have stated that they're not going after that. I mean if lack of power turn you off don't buy it.

I heard someone talking about computer that is going to surpass ps3 graphical power after a while when ps3 come out. Cell graphic cards exist already that is as powerful or close to that of ps3 (cost about $8k tho over at linuxdevices.com).

As for Graphic complaints I have to say RE4 is pretty impressive. It'll take companies a while to fully ultilize 360 and ps3 graphics (coding with multicore and threads is incrediblely hard).

I hope capcom bring dead rising over to wii otherwise I have to wait a while and get 2nd hand 360 ^____^. I can imagine myself waving the wiimote around throwing stuff on the ground trying to slow those zombies down while I run for my life.

[Antemeridian @ Sep 15th 2006 9:36AM]

Just a quick comment to the debate between Gilbert and Cry Havoc. Gilbert, I understand some of where you're coming from, but there was one comment you made at the beginning of one of your early posts that actually lends itself well to the opposite side of the argument. You state that the reason that consoles have succeeded even though PCS are more powerful/flexible/etc. is that the market has proven that a dedicated console works best for providing that type of experience. Likewise, even as you've said with the DS, it provides the same type of specialization.

Now, could the PS3 gain an attachment to do what the Wii does at higher resolutions? Probably. Could they build it into games as an option, so that you don't necessarily require the motion sensing controller for the game? Also probably. But for the same reason that Consoles have survived in a PC gaming market, I think the Wii can survive/thrive in a console market with two competitors with more traditional control schemes. And because the controller is the basic controller, suddenly it becomes the Lowest Common Denominator that designers are working with on the system, and as such, should also be the best designed interface for that version of the game, rather than a tacked on peripheral.

Just a thought.

Cheers

[Ben Hobbs @ Sep 15th 2006 9:58AM]

I can buy a DVD player for $15-$20, that includes a remote control and the casing etc... I fail to see how it would be so expensive to implement in the Wi.

[Gilbert @ Sep 15th 2006 10:41AM]

Antemeridian,

I def agree there is room for it to survive. However, in the long run, what's next?

The next step in the total-immersion process for Nintendo has to be visual by default. And when it is, what is N going to do, alienate its customers by releasing something that costs 100% or more over the price of the Wii? I'm not too sure. Think of the Wii2, what could it possibly be? Better graphics and a better controller, right?

But by then, if the succeed on all innovation fronts and survive, which, as a person born with a Famicom as a pacifier, I hope to God they do, don't you think the other Big Two will come around with their superfluous add-on controllers, even though they're not developed for as an LCD?

[cckrobinson @ Sep 15th 2006 10:42AM]

My oldest son just turned 4. I can't wait for the Wii to launch. The only consoles that I've owned over the year were the original Nintendo and the Dreamcast. I will have a Wii in my house by Thanksgiving. My wife really likes the idea of the new controller. Instead of just sitting on the couch and twiddling his thumbs, my son will actually be able to interact with the game physically.